Discussion:
As long as we're talking star trek
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c***@webtv.net
2005-05-24 18:39:26 UTC
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How did the Vulcans move to another planet, name it Romulus and recreate
the Roman Empire? Did they visit earth 2000 years ago and get impressed
by what they saw?
Mark Brown
2005-05-24 19:50:02 UTC
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Post by c***@webtv.net
How did the Vulcans move to another planet, name it Romulus and recreate
the Roman Empire? Did they visit earth 2000 years ago and get impressed
by what they saw?
Well, the Roman/Romulan parallels are part of Roddenberry's initial
allegory. He wanted the Romulans to present a fascist, state-controlled
dictatorship (and he already had the Klingons representing Cold War Russia).
Being Vulcanoid, they would have to be much more civil than Klingons anyway;
more erudite and cultured (it was a script point; the female Romulan had to
be Spock's intellectual peer). If you put "dictatorship," "culture," and
"intellect" in a mental search engine, the Roman Empire is the main thing
that comes up.

Also, it's pretty clear that ~someone~ involved with TOS was a fan of the
Romans; what with "Bread and Circuses" (an alternate world where the Roman
Empire never fell), and "Plato's Stepchildren" (more Greco-Roman than
Greek).

FWIW, the analogy isn't perfect; the Romulan Empire doesn't have a
Triumvirate, it has a Praetor. The military is technically called the
Imperial Guard, but the Tal Shiar are a touch of Naziism; a Gestapo-esque
secret police. Also, recent designers (TNG and onward) have worked to add a
"Japanese" influence; with ceremonial weapons resembling katanas, uniforms
based on kimonos, references to a bushido-like code of honour and
discipline, and the use of Japanese instruments in the Romulan theme in
Nemesis.

Originally (as per one of Spock's display screens in TOS), The Romulan
homeworlds were to have been Romulus and Romii, making the analogy less
perfect. It was only later that Remus became canon, and even longer before
somebody decided that Remans would be a separate race (having the same
relation to Romulans as Nietzscheans do to humans in the Andromeverse). (We
can still fit in Romii, since whoever was responsible for drawing that
graphic apparently didn't understand just how tiny planets are; Romulus &
Romii are almost half as far from each other as they are from Earth. 9_9 )

Mark
"Jolan tru."
George Peatty
2005-05-24 23:14:04 UTC
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Post by c***@webtv.net
How did the Vulcans move to another planet, name it Romulus and recreate
the Roman Empire? Did they visit earth 2000 years ago and get impressed
by what they saw?
Well, the obvious answer is, they didn't. Some Terran named Roddenberry
made the whole thing up out of his head, and there is no such thing as
Romulans.

A story-internal explanation is that the Romulans do not bear *any*
resemblance to our Roman Empire. These are artifacts, superimposed on
Romulan society, to give us dumb Terrans a frame of reference for
understanding it.
Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
2005-05-25 03:45:56 UTC
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They never did explain WTF "Jolan True" stood for. Was it a secret
countersign the Romulan underground used, or was kind of like a "Heil
Hitler" type salutation?
Mark Brown
2005-05-25 12:40:16 UTC
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Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
They never did explain WTF "Jolan True" stood for. Was it a secret
countersign the Romulan underground used, or was kind of like a "Heil
Hitler" type salutation?
I think it was just a generic polite greeting, like "good day," or "dia
dhuit" (Irish: "God be with you").

At least that's how it's used in the novels.

Mark
"Being polite never hurt anyone."
Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
2005-05-25 16:05:44 UTC
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"Jolan True" could be like a provincial or archaic salutation that was
used by Romulans who disapproved of their oppressive totalitarian state
and wanted more rapprochement with Vulcan. Once a common saying it has
fallen out of use because of its Vulcan intonations. but is still used
because of tradition. It is a kind of subtle social protest in a society
where any kind of dissent is, of course, highly discouraged.

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