Discussion:
BS Galactica will be utterly rejected
(too old to reply)
Shamus P. Burditt
2006-02-11 10:50:51 UTC
Permalink
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
Loading Image...
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."

Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
hg
2006-02-11 13:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
That's what I can a real commited fan.
hg
2006-02-11 13:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by hg
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
That's what I can a real commited fan.
Doh!
I meant to say "That's what I call a real committed fan"
Starkiller©
2006-02-11 14:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by hg
Post by hg
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
That's what I can a real commited fan.
Doh!
I meant to say "That's what I call a real committed fan"
I dunno. "Canned Fan" is kinda catchy. :-)
Regards


Starkiller©

......AAmarillo High School and Oiler coach Bum Phillips when asked by Bob Costas why he takes his wife on all the road trips, Phillips responded: "Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good-bye."
t***@who.net
2006-02-11 15:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
well of course it is - the "mainstream" as you call it are paid lots of
money by the studios.

Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?
Starkiller©
2006-02-11 16:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@who.net
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
well of course it is - the "mainstream" as you call it are paid lots of
money by the studios.
Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?
Don't you know anything about Usenet? That's not my quote you're
responding to there sparky.
Post by t***@who.net
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, rasie our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel
that their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might
spawn) will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and
will be utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the Natinal Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow.
Regards


Starkiller©

......AAmarillo High School and Oiler coach Bum Phillips when asked by Bob Costas why he takes his wife on all the road trips, Phillips responded: "Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good-bye."
Shamus P. Burditt
2006-02-11 17:20:16 UTC
Permalink
"Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?"
Shamus P. Burditt
2006-02-11 17:27:16 UTC
Permalink
"Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?"

Or how jealous you are to so despise the "American Dream?" Shame on you
for trying to make your envy seem like contempt. You are transparent and
obvious.
Bob
2006-02-11 19:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?"
Or how jealous you are to so despise the "American Dream?" Shame on you
for trying to make your envy seem like contempt. You are transparent and
obvious.
I never see rowboats heading towards Cuba.

When the pinko commie scum in Hollywood promised to leaf America if
Bush were elected, we members of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy took
up a collection to pay for a one-way ticket for all of them to Commie
China.

They are still here and Bush has been elected twice.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
CatPanDaddy
2006-02-11 23:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?"
Or how jealous you are to so despise the "American Dream?" Shame on you
for trying to make your envy seem like contempt. You are transparent and
obvious.
I never see rowboats heading towards Cuba.
When the pinko commie scum in Hollywood promised to leaf America if
Bush were elected, we members of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy took
up a collection to pay for a one-way ticket for all of them to Commie
China.
They are still here and Bush has been elected twice.
Too subtle!
John VanSickle
2006-02-11 20:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@who.net
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
well of course it is - the "mainstream" as you call it are paid lots of
money by the studios.
Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?
'Bout half as corrupt as Europe and the European dream.

Regards,
John
Bob
2006-02-12 15:23:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:40:40 GMT, John VanSickle
Post by John VanSickle
Post by t***@who.net
Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?
'Bout half as corrupt as Europe and the European dream.
Europe and Britain are so ExtremeUltraFarLeft they don't even register
on our political spectrum.

If Ronald Reagan had run for political office in Britain, he would
have been immediately demonized as Hitler.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-12 16:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:40:40 GMT, John VanSickle
Post by John VanSickle
Post by t***@who.net
Dont you know anything about how corrupt america and the "american
dream" is?
'Bout half as corrupt as Europe and the European dream.
Europe and Britain are so ExtremeUltraFarLeft they don't even register
on our political spectrum.
If Ronald Reagan had run for political office in Britain, he would
have been immediately demonized as Hitler.
Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady, was badmouthed by her own people, but
she save the British Economy by dealing with the gorram Trades Unions.
She and Dutch got on famously. Two chips from the same block.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-12 17:02:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:17:34 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady, was badmouthed by her own people, but
she save the British Economy by dealing with the gorram Trades Unions.
She and Dutch got on famously. Two chips from the same block.
There is at least one fatal flaw which irreparably tarnishes that
image.

Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.

Reagan would never turn American citizens into unarmed wimp peasants
like that Fascist Witch did to Brits.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-12 17:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
There is at least one fatal flaw which irreparably tarnishes that
image.
Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.
Reagan would never turn American citizens into unarmed wimp peasants
like that Fascist Witch did to Brits.
Guns are not the end all and be all (although they are sometimes
useful). That witch put a stake through the hearts of the trade
unionists and for that I will forgive a great deal. She was and is a
bitch, but my kind of bitch. At least twice a month I get in touch with
my Inner Fascist.

Bob Kolker
Andy
2006-02-12 19:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
There is at least one fatal flaw which irreparably tarnishes that
image.
Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.
Reagan would never turn American citizens into unarmed wimp peasants
like that Fascist Witch did to Brits.
Guns are not the end all and be all (although they are sometimes
useful). That witch put a stake through the hearts of the trade
unionists and for that I will forgive a great deal. She was and is a
bitch, but my kind of bitch.
I said as much in a college politics class back in the day, and nearly got
booted. Well, the teacher was an ass anyway...
Post by Robert J. Kolker
At least twice a month I get in touch with
my Inner Fascist.
Can't let 'em rot in there, they get irritated ;-)

Have you read Ken MacLeod's Engines Of Light trilogy?
--
A
I am not an Cylon by logic. I am an Cylon because that's what I am and
cannot be otherwise.
Bob
2006-02-12 20:28:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:05:24 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.
Guns are not the end all and be all (although they are sometimes
useful).
You are dead wrong.

According to Professor Gary Kleck, Criminologist at Florida State
University, working under a grant from the Department of Justice,
there are over 3 million uses of guns in self defense each year in the
US. In only about 1-2% of those "defensive gun uses" is the gun
actually fired and in only 45% of those instance is there any injury.

That's 3,000,000 citizens who were spared the agony of becoming
victims of violent crime. I would declare that to be more than just
"useful".
Post by Robert J. Kolker
That witch put a stake through the hearts of the trade
unionists and for that I will forgive a great deal.
Actually she did not do anywhere what she claimed to do. Join
<uk.politics.misc> and ask the British posters what the truth is.

She also imposed a "poll tax" which caused a literal revolt and
resulted in her being run out of office.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
She was and is a
bitch, but my kind of bitch. At least twice a month I get in touch with
my Inner Fascist.
Extrapolating the American experience to Britain, where the rate of
violent crime is higher than in the US, Kleck's figures translate into
600,000 defensive gun uses - if Brits had been allowed to possess guns
for self defense. Instead, thanks to that fascist witch Thatcher and
her gun confiscation, there are 600,000 unnecessary victims of violent
crime. Think about how many women had to endure rape because they
could not have a gun to protect themselves.

And the bitter irony is that the rate of violent crime has increased
substantially each year since gun confiscation. It is now the highest
in the industrialized world.

Compare this with the other extreme in Kennesaw, Georgia, an embedded
suburb of gun-murder capital Atlanta. The City Council passed an
ordinance requiring each household to have a gun. The crime rate
plummeted to near zero and has remained low ever since.

Our neighborhood in Houston has an implicit Kennesaw rule and we have
no violent crime. The reason is that the word is out that anyone
committing a crime will be shot until dead.

One Saturday morning a house down the street exploded from natural
gas. In 15 seconds there were at least 50 people on the street.
Imagine what would happen if a woman yelled "rape" - there would be 50
people with shotguns on the street all fighting over who gets to kill
the rapist.

When you hear the Texas Motto "Don't Fuck With Texas!", it is prudent
to take it at face value. Saddam Hussein found out the hard way.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
a***@but.com
2006-02-13 00:16:44 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@news-server.houston.rr.com>, ***@uce.gov
says...
Post by Bob
That's 3,000,000 citizens who were spared the agony of becoming
victims of violent crime. I would declare that to be more than just
"useful".
agreed ... but
assuming of course the original offence wasnt enabled by the existence of
a gun in the hand of the perpetrator in the first place.

I see no reference to the figures for that in your data.
Bob
2006-02-13 12:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@but.com
Post by Bob
That's 3,000,000 citizens who were spared the agony of becoming
victims of violent crime. I would declare that to be more than just
"useful".
agreed ... but
assuming of course the original offence wasnt enabled by the existence of
a gun in the hand of the perpetrator in the first place.
Kleck claims he makes sure that he only counts are what he calls
"Defensive Gun Uses". A DGU is not recorded unless the potential
victim actually brandishes the gun. Therefore the mere existence of a
gun is not enough to be recorded.
Post by a***@but.com
I see no reference to the figures for that in your data.
I mentioned Gary Kleck. Visit amazon.com.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
a***@but.com
2006-02-13 15:07:30 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@news-server.houston.rr.com>, ***@uce.gov
says...
Post by Bob
Kleck claims he makes sure that he only counts are what he calls
"Defensive Gun Uses". A DGU is not recorded unless the potential
victim actually brandishes the gun. Therefore the mere existence of a
gun is not enough to be recorded.
Post by a***@but.com
I see no reference to the figures for that in your data.
I mentioned Gary Kleck. Visit amazon.com.
Yes-but does he specifically exclude those where the offence is committed
by someone brandishing or carrying a gun? There seems to be a lot of
dancing around to disguise this question so I'd say

It seems not.

IE the entire survey is at best seriously flawed. At worst plain
fraudulent.

Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
The reason gun crime has gone up in the UK since gun confiscation is
becuse the UK government has been deliberately flooding the country with
european low life in a desperate attempt to force Nazi ID cards on the
populace. Not because fewer guns equals more crime. Many of the guns
confiscated have been filtered deliberately to criminals. That is kept
VERY quiet.

Now - what if every gun in existance was 100% traceable to its legal
owner who himself or herself was required to be traceable at all times
and who was held 100% responsible for any crime commited with it?
Breaking conditions of ownership is a mandatory death sentence.

Under those circumstances I'd switch from being totally anti gun
to being totally FOR gun ownership and buy one myself.

The self defense arguament isnt lost on me - I believe if someone attacks
you with a wooden spoon you have the right to shoot them dead. They had
no business attacking you in the first place.

But the current situation slaughters far too many innocents. Radical
change is absolutely imperative.

Arguueing to find a sensible way to change makes sense. Schoolyard
name calling is plain dumb. Both sides are acting dumb.
Bob
2006-02-13 18:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@but.com
Post by Bob
I mentioned Gary Kleck. Visit amazon.com.
Yes-but does he specifically exclude those where the offence is committed
by someone brandishing or carrying a gun? There seems to be a lot of
dancing around to disguise this question so I'd say
The only dancing comes from your strawmen.

If someone threatens you, you have every right to employ the
reasonable effective means to stop the threat, and that includes
brandishing a gun. You and your strawmen want to place all sorts of
idiotic restrictions of you making. It does not work that way in the
real world.
Post by a***@but.com
It seems not.
IE the entire survey is at best seriously flawed. At worst plain
fraudulent.
You are nuts.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
a***@but.com
2006-02-13 20:38:10 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@news-server.houston.rr.com>, ***@uce.gov
says...
Post by Bob
Post by a***@but.com
IE the entire survey is at best seriously flawed. At worst plain
fraudulent.
You are nuts.
Yes of course. The most convenient arguament of all.
You got me there.
beat me hands down.
OrionCA
2006-02-14 03:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
--
A sufficiently advanced programming error is
indistinguishable from the Windows Operating System
Chris Basken
2006-02-14 03:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put
into effect, violent crime seems to increase. For example, violent
crime in Boston was low until 1998, when they changed the laws and made
it more difficult to get a gun. Violent crime in Boston is now the
highest it's been in almost a decade.
-Lunacy-
2006-02-14 04:37:43 UTC
Permalink
But why !

cant just be one reason for that increase .
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put into
effect, violent crime seems to increase. For example, violent crime in
Boston was low until 1998, when they changed the laws and made it more
difficult to get a gun. Violent crime in Boston is now the highest it's
been in almost a decade.
Dwight Gruber
2006-02-15 02:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by -Lunacy-
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put into
effect, violent crime seems to increase. For example, violent crime in
Boston was low until 1998, when they changed the laws and made it more
difficult to get a gun. Violent crime in Boston is now the highest it's
been in almost a decade.
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Good question. In Great Britain, handgun ownership is forbidden and violent
crime goes up thereupon. In Austraila, handgun ownership is forbidden and
violent crime goes up sharply thereupon. In Canada, handgun ownership is
severly restricted and violent crime goes up. In the US, the communities
with the most severe gun restrictions have the greatest percentage of
violent and gun crimes.

The increases are substantial and occur shortly following the enabling
legislation and confiscation. I would frankly be interested in an
alternative explanation.

And no, I haven't provided documentation, I don't have it at hand. A web
search will find you plenty.

--DwightG
Dwight Gruber
2006-02-15 07:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
You are being misled by the logic of the numbers.

There are two kinds of gun owners. First, are the ordinary, law-abiding
citizens who own gun (in the US, an in inalienable right guaranteed in the
Constitution), have them in their homes, and with the appropriate legal
permissions may carry them on their persons. Occasionally these may be
brandished, sometimes even used, in the defense of the home, the person, or
another person. You usually don't hear of these occurrances.

The second kind of gun owner is the unlawful owner, frequently a person who
is forbidden by law to own or possess a gun (due to felony or other
conviction or terms of probation, etc); or persons predisposed to commit
violent personal or property crimes using their gun.

When a law is passed severely regulating or eliminating the personal
ownership of guns, the first kind of gun owner will almost always obey the
law and the number of legally owned guns will be reduced--this can be a
significant number.

The second kind of owner will simply ignore the law, as they have already
been doing. The reduction of legally owned guns may embolden other criminals
to take up the gun.

Thus, laws mandating the reduction in the number of guns in possession do
not reduce the numbers of guns in the possession of people predisposed to
their unlawful use.

One may look at the statistics where these laws have come into effect to
belie "simple common sense". One may also apply logic and see where this may
have a corrolary effect of increasing non-gun personal violence and property
crime due to the reduction of the threat of immediate retaliation.

Apologies if I am stating the obvious.

--DwightG
Captain Infinity
2006-02-15 12:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dwight Gruber
Apologies if I am stating the obvious.
You are forgiven for stating the obvious but I'm going to have to plonk
you for stating the terminally boring. PLONK!


**
Captain Infinity
Bob
2006-02-15 13:51:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:15:30 GMT, Captain Infinity
Post by Captain Infinity
Post by Dwight Gruber
Apologies if I am stating the obvious.
You are forgiven for stating the obvious but I'm going to have to plonk
you for stating the terminally boring. PLONK!
Thank you for plonking. Now we won't have to listen to your juvenile
behavior.

Plonking in public is juvenile because no one gives a rat's ass if you
can't deal with opinions of others. Crawl back up your boyfriend's ass
where you belong.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
CatPanDaddy
2006-02-15 14:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:15:30 GMT, Captain Infinity
Post by Captain Infinity
Post by Dwight Gruber
Apologies if I am stating the obvious.
You are forgiven for stating the obvious but I'm going to have to plonk
you for stating the terminally boring. PLONK!
Thank you for plonking. Now we won't have to listen to your juvenile
behavior.
Plonking in public is juvenile because no one gives a rat's ass if you
can't deal with opinions of others. Crawl back up your boyfriend's ass
where you belong.
And before anyone accuses Bob of committing an ad-hom with that last paragraph,
I submit the following facts for consideration:

- "Capt. Infinity" was taking an anti-gun position.
- Anti-gun people are liberals.
- Liberals are all homosexuals.

So says Bob, so say we all.

Actually, I'm not at all serious in this; I will just say that Infinity invited
that kind of response for acting in such a juvenile way.

*awaiting my plonk*
Bob
2006-02-15 18:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatPanDaddy
Post by Bob
Plonking in public is juvenile because no one gives a rat's ass if you
can't deal with opinions of others. Crawl back up your boyfriend's ass
where you belong.
And before anyone accuses Bob of committing an ad-hom with that last paragraph,
- "Capt. Infinity" was taking an anti-gun position.
- Anti-gun people are liberals.
- Liberals are all homosexuals.
So says Bob, so say we all.
Actually, I'm not at all serious in this; I will just say that Infinity invited
that kind of response for acting in such a juvenile way.
*awaiting my plonk*
You are too linear for Usenet. Loosen up and just go along for the
ride.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
CatPanDaddy
2006-02-15 18:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
Post by Bob
Plonking in public is juvenile because no one gives a rat's ass if you
can't deal with opinions of others. Crawl back up your boyfriend's ass
where you belong.
And before anyone accuses Bob of committing an ad-hom with that last paragraph,
- "Capt. Infinity" was taking an anti-gun position.
- Anti-gun people are liberals.
- Liberals are all homosexuals.
So says Bob, so say we all.
Actually, I'm not at all serious in this; I will just say that Infinity invited
that kind of response for acting in such a juvenile way.
*awaiting my plonk*
You are too linear for Usenet. Loosen up and just go along for the
ride.
Fair enough, I'll try to loosen up. Though how was "linear" meant here?
Bob
2006-02-15 19:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatPanDaddy
Post by Bob
You are too linear for Usenet. Loosen up and just go along for the
ride.
Fair enough, I'll try to loosen up. Though how was "linear" meant here?
of, relating to, or based or depending on sequential development
<linear thinking>
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Captain Infinity
2006-02-15 21:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
Post by Bob
Plonking in public is juvenile because no one gives a rat's ass if you
can't deal with opinions of others. Crawl back up your boyfriend's ass
where you belong.
And before anyone accuses Bob of committing an ad-hom with that last paragraph,
- "Capt. Infinity" was taking an anti-gun position.
I was indeed not. I am not anti-gun. I am not pro-gun. Guns are tools and
like any other tool can be used in a right way or a wrong way.

The position I was taking was anti-boring. In the group I am reading this,
the gun debate is boring. As related to Battlestar Galactica, the gun
controversy is boring. The. Gun. Controversy. Is. Boring.
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
- Anti-gun people are liberals.
I am not a liberal. I'm not sure what a liberal is. I am anti-politic.
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
- Liberals are all homosexuals.
I am not homosexual. I am celibate.
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
So says Bob, so say we all.
Actually, I'm not at all serious in this; I will just say that Infinity invited
that kind of response for acting in such a juvenile way.
Acting in a juvenile way is my RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN!!
Post by Bob
Post by CatPanDaddy
*awaiting my plonk*
You are too linear for Usenet. Loosen up and just go along for the
ride.
Physician, heal thyself.

_____ ______ __ __ __ __ __ _ ___
\ __\ __ )/ \| | | |/ \ | \ | | \ <***@captaininfinity.us>
\ _\ ( ) / /\ \ |__| / /\ \| | \| | |\ \ -------------------- <_><_>
\ \ \ \/ / __ \ __ / __ \ |\ | | |/ / <http://captaininfinity.us>
\_\ \__/__/ \_|__||__|_/ \__\| \__|___/
Chris Basken
2006-02-15 23:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Infinity
Post by CatPanDaddy
- Liberals are all homosexuals.
I am not homosexual. I am celibate.
Celibacy is good... in moderation.
Bob
2006-02-16 13:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
Post by Captain Infinity
I am not homosexual. I am celibate.
Celibacy is good... in moderation.
That's what pedophilia is all about.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
David Chapman
2006-02-16 12:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Infinity
Post by CatPanDaddy
- Liberals are all homosexuals.
I am not homosexual. I am celibate.
Me and my complete lack of surprise will get back to you. OTOH, as far as
assholes are concerned the two terms are interchangeable.
--
"My son is not a terrorist - he is a junior IT support officer."
the other Eric
2006-02-15 18:17:10 UTC
Permalink
CatPanDaddy wrote:

<snip>
Post by CatPanDaddy
Actually, I'm not at all serious in this; I will just say that Infinity invited
that kind of response for acting in such a juvenile way.
It isn't juvenile. You've just got to believe that or else I will
plonk you! ;-)


LOL
Bob
2006-02-15 13:50:12 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:17:48 -0800, "Dwight Gruber"
Post by Dwight Gruber
There are two kinds of gun owners. First, are the ordinary, law-abiding
citizens who own gun (in the US, an in inalienable right guaranteed in the
Constitution), have them in their homes, and with the appropriate legal
permissions may carry them on their persons. Occasionally these may be
brandished, sometimes even used, in the defense of the home, the person, or
another person. You usually don't hear of these occurrances.
The NRA and other gun rights organizations speak about this. Gary
Kleck, John Lott and others have written books.

What you mean is that we do not hear about this in the pinko commie
media.
Post by Dwight Gruber
I am stating the obvious.
Indeed, but it is lost on the hoplophobes.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 05:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dwight Gruber
Good question. In Great Britain, handgun ownership is forbidden and violent
crime goes up thereupon. In Austraila, handgun ownership is forbidden and
violent crime goes up sharply thereupon. In Canada, handgun ownership is
severly restricted and violent crime goes up.
In Japan, handgun ownership is forbidden, gun ownership is _severely_
restricted and the number of crimes comitted with guns is miniscule.
Most gun related crime is linked to the yakuza, the Japanese mafia.
Bob
2006-02-16 13:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
In Japan, handgun ownership is forbidden, gun ownership is _severely_
restricted and the number of crimes comitted with guns is miniscule.
You would rather be hacked to death with a sword?
Post by Darth Mura
Most gun related crime is linked to the yakuza, the Japanese mafia.
Apparently not all gun ownership is forbidden or severly restricted.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 23:27:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
In Japan, handgun ownership is forbidden, gun ownership is _severely_
restricted and the number of crimes comitted with guns is miniscule.
You would rather be hacked to death with a sword?
Swords are also strictly controlled.
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Most gun related crime is linked to the yakuza, the Japanese mafia.
Apparently not all gun ownership is forbidden or severly restricted.
Of course it is. But a very small number of people flout the law and
use the guns mostly to shoot each other.
Bob
2006-02-17 13:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
a very small number of people flout the law and
use the guns mostly to shoot each other.
Do you have a problem with criminals killing other criminals?

BTW, that is 80% of gun killings according to the FBI. And most of the
rest are "legal intervention", eg, citizens and cops killing
criminals.

Drive-by shootings and accidents are way down from there. Even
domestic killings are committed by other means. Guns are too noisy.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Chris Basken
2006-02-15 18:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by -Lunacy-
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns." Gun control types like to belittle that
as threadbare cliche, but it's fundamentally true.
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 06:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
Post by -Lunacy-
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
Bob
2006-02-16 13:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
The state is above the law.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Dwight Gruber
2006-02-16 18:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
The state is above the law.
History is rife with the problems when only The State is allowed to have
guns. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia are only two of the more noteworthy...

Read the writings of the framers of the Constitution. Their clear intent is
that an armed populace is thus able to -resist- Tyrrany.

--DwightG
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-16 18:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dwight Gruber
History is rife with the problems when only The State is allowed to have
guns. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia are only two of the more noteworthy...
Read the writings of the framers of the Constitution. Their clear intent is
that an armed populace is thus able to -resist- Tyrrany.
Unless the tyrants have tanks and planes, while the patriots have only
pistols and rifles.

When the Warsaw Ghetto was finally reduced the Germans brought in
artillary and finished the job. So much for the lightly armed freedom
fighter.

I would much rather have nuke. That way, when I go a take a lot of the
bastards with me.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-16 19:25:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:09:30 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
When the Warsaw Ghetto was finally reduced the Germans brought in
artillary and finished the job. So much for the lightly armed freedom
fighter.
No one is claiming that a handful of armed Jews in Warsaw won their
battle with the Nazis. But what is important to note is that compared
to those Jews who were unarmed, the armed ones lived to fight another
day.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-16 22:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:09:30 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
When the Warsaw Ghetto was finally reduced the Germans brought in
artillary and finished the job. So much for the lightly armed freedom
fighter.
No one is claiming that a handful of armed Jews in Warsaw won their
battle with the Nazis. But what is important to note is that compared
to those Jews who were unarmed, the armed ones lived to fight another
day.
And the they were killed. If they knew what was waiting for them in 1933
they would have put up a struggle and perhaps would have prevented the
holocaust. There is a down side to being oh so civilized. And that is
one tends to see others in the same elevated way one sees oneself. That
is why I prefer being a barbarian. It takes one to know one.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 13:42:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:33:02 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
And the they were killed. If they knew what was waiting for them in 1933
they would have put up a struggle and perhaps would have prevented the
holocaust. There is a down side to being oh so civilized. And that is
one tends to see others in the same elevated way one sees oneself. That
is why I prefer being a barbarian. It takes one to know one.
I chose to be a "civilized barbarian", aka a Jesuitical Heathen. It's
the best of both worlds.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
I chose to be a "civilized barbarian", aka a Jesuitical Heathen. It's
the best of both worlds.
The Protestants of England knew how to take care of you guys. Yanking
the Priest from his hidey hole and drawing and quartering him at
leisure. God Bless Good Queen Bess!

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 17:17:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:30:29 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
I chose to be a "civilized barbarian", aka a Jesuitical Heathen. It's
the best of both worlds.
The Protestants of England knew how to take care of you guys. Yanking
the Priest from his hidey hole and drawing and quartering him at
leisure. God Bless Good Queen Bess!
It's Strawman Time once again, folks.

I never said anything about being a priest. What part of Heathen are
you unable to grasp?
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob
2006-02-16 19:18:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:15:52 -0800, "Dwight Gruber"
Post by Dwight Gruber
Read the writings of the framers of the Constitution. Their clear intent is
that an armed populace is thus able to -resist- Tyrrany.
Unfortunately when it came time to prevent a rogue govt from enslaving
the US. the Militia failed. I am talking about the War of Northern
Agression.

The Framers were unable to foresee the effects of industrialization,
which is what enabled the North to enslave the US.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 23:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dwight Gruber
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
The state is above the law.
History is rife with the problems when only The State is allowed to have
guns. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia are only two of the more noteworthy...
Are you saying that if eveyone in Germany or the USSR had had a gun,
they would have overthrown their govts and WWII would never have
happened?

Right now in America you have a tyranical govt but I don't see any
citizen militias rising up to throw out the Bush regime.
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-16 23:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Are you saying that if eveyone in Germany or the USSR had had a gun,
they would have overthrown their govts and WWII would never have
happened?
Right now in America you have a tyranical govt but I don't see any
citizen militias rising up to throw out the Bush regime.
Our government is NOT a tyranny. There is no wholesale denial of rights
either civil or natural. You just do not like the policies. But that is
not tyranny. That is just your disgust.

I would have preferred if Dubya had started with Iran which is really a
trouble spot and of course N. Korean. If he had nuked both those
countries in 2001 we would not have death in retail quantities in Iraq.

Wait until Nov 2008. The matter will be resolved peacefuly.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 13:56:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:49:05 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Our government is NOT a tyranny. There is no wholesale denial of rights
either civil or natural. You just do not like the policies. But that is
not tyranny. That is just your disgust.
Our govt is a fascist dictatorship.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
I would have preferred if Dubya had started with Iran which is really a
trouble spot and of course N. Korean. If he had nuked both those
countries in 2001 we would not have death in retail quantities in Iraq.
Bush did start with Iran and N. Korea - and Iraq too. He declared all
of them as our enemies - called them the "Evil Axis" way before 911.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Wait until Nov 2008. The matter will be resolved peacefuly.
How's that?
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Our govt is a fascist dictatorship.
Which it has been since the failed Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Aaron Burr
killed Alexander Hamilton in 1804 which was about ten years too late.

Bob Kolker
Post by Bob
Post by Robert J. Kolker
I would have preferred if Dubya had started with Iran which is really a
trouble spot and of course N. Korean. If he had nuked both those
countries in 2001 we would not have death in retail quantities in Iraq.
Bush did start with Iran and N. Korea - and Iraq too. He declared all
of them as our enemies - called them the "Evil Axis" way before 911.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Wait until Nov 2008. The matter will be resolved peacefuly.
How's that?
Bob
2006-02-17 17:31:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:41:53 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Our govt is a fascist dictatorship.
Which it has been since the failed Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Aaron Burr
killed Alexander Hamilton in 1804 which was about ten years too late.
Because of the purported "sovereignty of the several states" was still
in effect - in principle at least - I would put the transformation
from constitutional republic to fascist dictatorship at the enactment
of the 14th Amendment Sec. One says it all. From that time forward the
term "United States" went from plural to singular.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Bush did start with Iran and N. Korea - and Iraq too. He declared all
of them as our enemies - called them the "Evil Axis" way before 911.
Talk, talk, talk. And what was the action? Zilch. Zero. Nada. Bupkis.
Kaduchas. Zip. Nothing.
Post by Bob
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Wait until Nov 2008. The matter will be resolved peacefuly.
How's that?
It is called an election whereby the Republicans will be voted out and
not a shot will be fired. Not that I like the result, mind you, but that
is what is likely to happen. That is how the American Public (asses all)
do to Presidents who undertake wars that they either do not win or are
not perceived as winning.

So say we all.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 17:36:28 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:44:03 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Bush did start with Iran and N. Korea - and Iraq too. He declared all
of them as our enemies - called them the "Evil Axis" way before 911.
Talk, talk, talk. And what was the action? Zilch. Zero. Nada. Bupkis.
Kaduchas. Zip. Nothing.
You don't consider the invasion of Iraq an action?

I guess anything short of nuking them would not satisfy you.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Wait until Nov 2008. The matter will be resolved peacefuly.
How's that?
It is called an election whereby the Republicans will be voted out and
not a shot will be fired. Not that I like the result, mind you, but that
is what is likely to happen. That is how the American Public (asses all)
do to Presidents who undertake wars that they either do not win or are
not perceived as winning.
I remind you that GW Bush cannot run for a third term. Cheney is dog
meat, especially now. The Republicans need to put someone in the front
row.

And I disagree that the Demoncraps will take the presidency so easily.
They foolishly aligned their party with the FarLeft, and if the last
election told us anything, it's that the US has grown weary of the
FarLeft and its commie bullshit.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob
2006-02-17 13:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Dwight Gruber
History is rife with the problems when only The State is allowed to have
guns. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia are only two of the more noteworthy...
Are you saying that if eveyone in Germany or the USSR had had a gun,
they would have overthrown their govts and WWII would never have
happened?
If everyone had had a gun, regimes like Hitler and Stalin would have
never happened. Just ask the Swiss - where everyone has a gun.
Post by Darth Mura
Right now in America you have a tyranical govt but I don't see any
citizen militias rising up to throw out the Bush regime.
The tyranny has not reached critical mass.

"We're told we have a government by popular consent. At least in one
sense that's true. Every government always exercises the maximum
amount of power its rulers feel the people will stand for without
revolting."
--"Alongside Night"
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Dwight Gruber
History is rife with the problems when only The State is allowed to have
guns. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia are only two of the more noteworthy...
Are you saying that if eveyone in Germany or the USSR had had a gun,
they would have overthrown their govts and WWII would never have
happened?
If everyone had had a gun, regimes like Hitler and Stalin would have
never happened. Just ask the Swiss - where everyone has a gun.
Or the Israelis where everyone has a firearm including the Palestineans
among them. The result: suicide bombers blow up pizza parlors. On the
other hand, the Swiss are free to bore each other to tears.

I am trying to remember a line from -The Third Man-.

During the Borgias you had terror and death but you also had Da Vinci,
Michaelangelo and the Renaissance. The Swiss have had fivehundred years
of peace and democracy and what have they produced? The coo coo clock.
-A paraphrase of what Harry Lime said to his friend Holly-

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 17:28:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:40:29 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
The Swiss have had fivehundred years
of peace and democracy
Their system of govt is a limited republic.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
and what have they produced? The coo coo clock.
Banking center. Chocolate industry. Airgun industry. Tourist industry.
Cheese industry. Watch industry. Geneva Convention. Swiss Guard. Ski
Industry. etc.

If you are bored in Switzerland, something is wrong with you.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 17:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Banking center. Chocolate industry. Airgun industry. Tourist industry.
Cheese industry. Watch industry. Geneva Convention. Swiss Guard. Ski
Industry. etc.
If you are bored in Switzerland, something is wrong with you.
Aside from the Alps and all that Gold what do the Swiss have? Their best
contribution to the human race were the Brother Bernouli of scientific
and mathematical fame. Also Leonard Euler.

Bob Kolker
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 23:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
The state is above the law.
So the state is also outlaw.
Bob
2006-02-17 13:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Bob
The state is above the law.
So the state is also outlaw.
Govt is a criminal organization.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:31:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Bob
The state is above the law.
So the state is also outlaw.
Govt is a criminal organization.
And Taxation is Theft!

If one can't love liberty, at least he should hat the gummint.

Bob Kolker
Chris Basken
2006-02-16 15:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Post by -Lunacy-
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
Cops can't prevent a crime. They can only follow up afterward. The
only possibly violent crime deterrent is an armed civilian populance.
Bob
2006-02-16 19:29:35 UTC
Permalink
The only possibly violent crime deterrent is an armed civilian populance.
Which includes armed criminals. They are responsible for most gun
murders. The good news is that they kill other criminals.

Armed citizens kill 3 times as many criminals as cops. Half of the
shootings involving cops end up with the injury of an innocent party,
mostly other cops from friendly fire.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Darth Mura
2006-02-16 23:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Post by -Lunacy-
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
Cops can't prevent a crime.
Of course they can.
Post by Chris Basken
They can only follow up afterward.
"Sorry, ma'am, we'll have to let these men assualt you before we can
follow up. We can't prevent crimes, you understand."
Post by Chris Basken
The
only possibly violent crime deterrent is an armed civilian populance.
Make a society where there is no need for violent crime. You won't get
rid of it 100%, but you can get rid of quite a lot by treating everyone
fairly and with respect.
Chris Basken
2006-02-16 23:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Post by -Lunacy-
But why !
cant just be one reason for that increase .
Dwight explained it. It basically comes down to "when you outlaw guns,
only outlaws will have guns."
The state won't have any guns of its own? The army? The police? Or
will the state then be considered criminal for having its own guns?
Cops can't prevent a crime.
Of course they can.
How?
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
They can only follow up afterward.
"Sorry, ma'am, we'll have to let these men assualt you before we can
follow up. We can't prevent crimes, you understand."
Yes, that's exactly what happens. Or are you saying cops magically
materialize in back alleys or in peoples' homes when someone assaults them?

Sure, once in a thousand times (being generous here), a cop just so
happens to be nearby.
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
The
only possibly violent crime deterrent is an armed civilian populance.
Make a society where there is no need for violent crime. You won't get
rid of it 100%, but you can get rid of quite a lot by treating everyone
fairly and with respect.
'Twould be nice, no? Unfortunately, it's hardwired into human nature to
try to get ahead of everyone else. Like you said, you can't get rid of
it 100%, but that doesn't mean you just roll over and let the % that
remains take advantage of you.
Bob
2006-02-17 13:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
you just roll over and let the % that
remains take advantage of you.
That's what happens every day when we succumb to the govt.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
That's what happens every day when we succumb to the govt.
They have the tanks and planes and control the media. We have little
choice.

Yodah says: Hold not your breath Young Bob, until begun is the
Revolution, else blue turn you will.

America had two Revolutions. The Revolution of 1775 (started at
Lexington MA) which succeeded and the Revolution of 1861 (starte at Ft.
Sumter) which failed. We are unlikely to have any more.


Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 17:20:40 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:35:33 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
That's what happens every day when we succumb to the govt.
They have the tanks and planes and control the media. We have little
choice.
Yodah says: Hold not your breath Young Bob, until begun is the
Revolution, else blue turn you will.
America had two Revolutions. The Revolution of 1775 (started at
Lexington MA) which succeeded and the Revolution of 1861 (starte at Ft.
Sumter) which failed. We are unlikely to have any more.
If a FarLeft govt attempts to confiscate guns from Texans, we will
secede.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Bob
2006-02-17 13:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
Cops can't prevent a crime.
Of course they can.
Cops are not even obliged to intervene if a citizen is at peril.

Cops are agents of the state. Their job is to serve and protect the
interests of the criminal ruling class that comprises the state and
its special interests.

If you believe otherwise, you are a fool.
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
They can only follow up afterward.
"Sorry, ma'am, we'll have to let these men assualt you before we can
follow up. We can't prevent crimes, you understand."
By the time the cops arrive, that woman has already been assaulted.

"Hey, rapist, wait a few minutes so I can call the cops, and then wait
some more time until they arrive."
Post by Darth Mura
Post by Chris Basken
The
only possibly violent crime deterrent is an armed civilian populance.
Make a society where there is no need for violent crime.
LOL.

If pigs had wings...
Post by Darth Mura
You won't get
rid of it 100%, but you can get rid of quite a lot by treating everyone
fairly and with respect.
You are too naive for words.

Grow Up!

Hey, Kolker - we have one for you who thinks that by "treating
everyone fairly and with respect" (whatever that means), you can "make
a society where there is no need for violent crime" (whatever that
means). Be merciful now - you were naive once too.
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-17 15:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
LOL.
If pigs had wings...
I like my version better: Az die bobbeh hat baytzim gevayne mir a zedeh.

If my grandma had balls she would be my grandpa.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-17 17:18:45 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:32:47 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
If my grandma had balls she would be my grandpa.
Wouldn't his tits look silly?
--
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined
nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides,
for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-14 08:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put
into effect, violent crime seems to increase. For example, violent
crime in Boston was low until 1998, when they changed the laws and made
it more difficult to get a gun. Violent crime in Boston is now the
highest it's been in almost a decade.
Nonsense. Police chiefs could delay the law that permits citizens of
Massachussets from excercising their rights to keep and bear firearms. I
lived their for 44 years so I now what I am talking about. It is even
worse in New Jersey where I now live. Fortunately I have a Pilum and
Gladius in my closet with which I can defend my home against evildoers.

What the world needs now, real badly, is another Rome to make a
Desolation and call it Victory.

Delenda Islama Est!

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-14 09:25:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 03:27:19 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Fortunately I have a Pilum and
Gladius in my closet with which I can defend my home against evildoers.
What the world needs now, real badly, is another Rome to make a
Desolation and call it Victory.
Delenda Islama Est!
Spoken like a true Princep.

[I thought "Islam" would be neuter and not feminine, therefore
"Delenda Islam Est!".]

According to Revelation, the New Roman Empire, consisting of the 10
nations of the Western European Union (WEU), will engage in a war with
Radical Islam and Russia, called the War of Gog and Magog - coming
soon to a battlefield near the Middle East. The New Roman Empire will
emerge victorious and put an end to Radical Islam and Russian
imperialism once and for all.

But first Tony Blair, the AntiChrist, must hand Britain over to the
Hun by forcing it to join the single currency, and then rush off to
the WEU to assume his position as its new leader. It is the leader of
the New Roman Empire at the time of the victory who will become the
AntiChrist. From there watch for the Temple to be rebuilt since
Radical Islam can't do anything to stop it.

On the road to Armegeddon...
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-14 14:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Radical Islam can't do anything to stop it.
On the road to Armegeddon...
What you have just told is a , a ..... revelation. You understand that
John of Patmos was munching some strange mushrooms the night before he
wrote Revelations. He is is crazy a coot.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-14 18:01:54 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:19:14 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Radical Islam can't do anything to stop it.
On the road to Armegeddon...
What you have just told is a , a ..... revelation. You understand that
John of Patmos was munching some strange mushrooms the night before he
wrote Revelations.
No different from Carl Sagan smoking shit.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
He is is crazy a coot.
That's because you don't understand him.

Deliberate ignorance is naive.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
David Chapman
2006-02-14 12:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Basken
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put
into effect, violent crime seems to increase.
Only in America.
--
"My son is not a terrorist - he is a junior IT support officer."
Bob
2006-02-14 13:47:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:05:05 -0000, "David Chapman"
Post by David Chapman
Post by Chris Basken
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put
into effect, violent crime seems to increase.
Only in America.
Not only in America. The same thing happened in Britain, Canada and
Australia.

One thing is for sure that has happened worldwide. According to Jews
For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), all major genocides
in the world in the last century were perpetrated after gun
confiscation.

By contrast the Jews in Warsaw, who had enough sense to keep as many
guns as they could when the Nazis confiscated them, held off a full
division of troops for enough time to escape. Some of them lived to
participate in the formation of Israel.

Those were the smart Jews. The stupid Jews went to the showers.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-14 14:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:05:05 -0000, "David Chapman"
Post by David Chapman
Post by Chris Basken
Also, it seems that whenever laws that restric gun ownership are put
into effect, violent crime seems to increase.
Only in America.
Not only in America. The same thing happened in Britain, Canada and
Australia.
One thing is for sure that has happened worldwide. According to Jews
For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), all major genocides
in the world in the last century were perpetrated after gun
confiscation.
By contrast the Jews in Warsaw, who had enough sense to keep as many
guns as they could when the Nazis confiscated them, held off a full
division of troops for enough time to escape. Some of them lived to
participate in the formation of Israel.
They also mugged Nazi troops who thought that rounding up a few Juden
would be a sinch. Wrong Heinrich! When Jews get their blood up they are
among the greatest warriors of all time. It took 42 days to wipe out the
Ghetto (only a handful survived). Which conincidently is as long as the
French army stood up against the Germans earlier in the war.
Post by Bob
Those were the smart Jews. The stupid Jews went to the showers.
The even smarter ones got out and went to what was then Palestine. There
were also Jews who had been in Palestine for fifty years prior to that.
They were the smartest of all. The ones that got rounded up for
liquidation were patsies. They simply could not believe that anyone
would want to kill them dead to the last man, women or child. It was not
cowardace that killed them, it was naivetee. We the living must learn
from their mistakes.

It won't happen again. Loh teepol shaynit Matzadah. Matzadah will not
fall a second time. Here is the bottom line. One does not fuck around
with the Jews on their own turf. It is very dangerous to do that.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-14 18:00:11 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:26:12 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
By contrast the Jews in Warsaw, who had enough sense to keep as many
guns as they could when the Nazis confiscated them, held off a full
division of troops for enough time to escape. Some of them lived to
participate in the formation of Israel.
They also mugged Nazi troops who thought that rounding up a few Juden
would be a sinch. Wrong Heinrich! When Jews get their blood up they are
among the greatest warriors of all time. It took 42 days to wipe out the
Ghetto (only a handful survived). Which conincidently is as long as the
French army stood up against the Germans earlier in the war.
The Nazis had to bring in the infamous Krupp Cannon to shell the
ghetto. It was a monster mounted on a rail car.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Those were the smart Jews. The stupid Jews went to the showers.
The even smarter ones got out and went to what was then Palestine.
That's what I meant by the earlier comment "Some of them lived to
participate in the formation of Israel."
Post by Robert J. Kolker
There were also Jews who had been in Palestine for fifty years prior to that.
They were the smartest of all. The ones that got rounded up for
liquidation were patsies. They simply could not believe that anyone
would want to kill them dead to the last man, women or child. It was not
cowardace that killed them, it was naivetee. We the living must learn
from their mistakes.
Fat chance. The Milgram Experiments prove otherwise.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
It won't happen again. Loh teepol shaynit Matzadah. Matzadah will not
fall a second time.
Especially with America backing them.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Here is the bottom line. One does not fuck around
with the Jews on their own turf. It is very dangerous to do that.
Some of my tax dollars went to building those capabilities to a
credible level.

The bottom line is that the Jews in Germany allowed the Nazis to
confiscate their guns, whereas the Jews in Poland did not.

Being disarmed is the ultimate naivette.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
-Lunacy-
2006-02-14 04:36:40 UTC
Permalink
BECAUSE U DIDN'T SHOOT ANYONE !
The trick is to remove the gun you got shot with. Not your own gun .

So u traded the gun in but should of got a personal shield to replace it !
Post by OrionCA
Post by a***@but.com
Simple common sense tells you fewer guns means fewer people get shot.
Does it? I give up my gun, the other guy doesn't, I get shot BUT
THERE ARE FEWER GUNS OUT THERE NOW!!! HOW CAN THIS BE????
--
A sufficiently advanced programming error is
indistinguishable from the Windows Operating System
Dwight Gruber
2006-02-15 02:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:17:34 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady, was badmouthed by her own people, but
she save the British Economy by dealing with the gorram Trades Unions.
She and Dutch got on famously. Two chips from the same block.
There is at least one fatal flaw which irreparably tarnishes that
image.
Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.
Reagan would never turn American citizens into unarmed wimp peasants
like that Fascist Witch did to Brits.
She may have hammered in the final stake, it may have been accomplished on
her watch, but to hold her alone blameworthy is shortsighted. The British
Government has been working up to this for the last 85 years, or more.

--DwightG

_________________________________________________________________

The trouble with lessons from history is that they often involve little
actual history.


Sometimes, the history was never there to begin with. Other times,
lessons from history are wrong because nobody has bothered to look at the
facts.

Where guns are involved, people are beginning to look. Bentley College
historian Joyce Malcolm looked deeply at the roots of America's right to
arms in a 1994 book published by Harvard University Press, entitled To Keep
and Bear Arms: The Origins of an Anglo-American Right. That book explained
that the right to arms enshrined in the Constitution's Second Amendment was
not merely the product of a "frontier mentality," as some gun-control
proponents have suggested, but the outgrowth of a long and well-established
English tradition favoring an armed citizenry as a defense against tyranny.

Now professor Malcolm, and Harvard University Press, are back with a
book entitled Guns and Violence: The English Experience, which addresses
another English connection to American gun rights.

It is a standard observation in American and English debates over gun
control that England has strict gun controls and low crime rates, while
America has (comparatively) liberal gun laws and higher crime rates. It is
usually assumed that there is a cause and effect relationship, with the low
crime stemming from the strict gun controls in England, and vice versa in
the United States.

This turns out not to be the case. As Malcolm observes, violent crime
rates in England, very high in the 14th century, fell more or less steadily
for five hundred years, even as ownership of firearms became more common. By
the late 19th century, England had gun laws that were far more liberal than
are found anywhere in the United States today, yet almost no gun crime, and
little violent crime of other sorts. (An 1870 act, which was seldom
enforced, required the payment of a small tax for the privilege of carrying,
not simply owning, a gun.)

Despite a well-armed populace, Malcolm reports, "statistics record an
astonishingly low rate of gun-related violence in the late nineteenth
century." How low?

In the course of three years, according to hospital reports, there
were only 59 fatalities from handguns in a population of nearly 30 million
people. Of these, 19 were accidents, 35 were suicides, and only 3 were
homicides 3 an average of one a year.

Despite these rates, which Malcolm is right to call astonishingly low,
the British government decided at the turn of the 20th century to begin a
program of gun control that would ensure "that nobody except a soldier,
sailor, or policeman, should have a pistol at all." The claimed
justification was the "enormous" number of handgun injuries.

This effort was initially frustrated by popular resistance, but the
first regulatory law in this campaign was passed in 1903, requiring a
license for the purchase of a pistol. Such licenses were freely available,
though, and citizens remained well enough armed that when (unarmed) London
bobbies were chasing a group of armed robbers in 1909, they had no trouble
borrowing pistols from passersby, while other armed citizens joined in the
chase. Rates of gun violence remained low.

After World War I, the English government got serious. Though fear of
crime was (again) claimed as a justification for much more intrusive gun
controls despite no increases of any significance, the real motivation -- as
historical records make very clear -- was the fear of armed labor unionists,
and perhaps even Bolshevik revolution. Though Parliament in the 17th, 18th
and 19th centuries had seen an armed citizenry as a valuable check on
tyranny, by the 20th century the government was determined to disarm the
citizenry so as to eliminate any threats to its power.

Because the 1903 act requiring firearm licensing had not resulted in
strict limits on gun ownership, the populace was not much threatened by the
1920 Firearms Act. The act met with much less resistance than the early
popular resistance to the 1903 law. But the 1920 Firearms Act began the
trend toward the near-complete disarmament of the formerly well-armed
English citizenry. This disarmament continued by gradual sub silentio
changes in administrative policy. For example, in 1938 the government made
the unannounced decision that pistol licenses would no longer be issued to
individuals who wanted a gun to defend their homes. Additional legislation
followed. As Malcolm puts it:

Parliament passed a comprehensive firearms statute that eliminated the
right of individuals to be armed. It was the culmination of fifty years of
effort by British governments of every political stripe. The announced
rationale by the ruling coalition government was, as usual, an increase in
armed crime, yet statistics in London show no such increase. . . . Private
Cabinet papers make clear that the government was afraid not of crime but of
disorder and even revolution, the same fears that had fuelled government
control measures in the past.

By 1953, the English were effectively disarmed - and compounding the
insult, courts began prosecuting people for previously legal (and even
encouraged) acts of violence in defense of persons and property. In the
future, only the police were to use violence, and even they tended to be
quite lenient toward violent criminals.

In a "coincidence" that will surprise few readers who are familiar
with the work of criminologists like John Lott and Gary Kleck, English crime
rates almost immediately began a steady rise, for the first time in 500
years. The overall crime rate in England and Wales is now 60 percent higher
than in the United States. And it wasn't just crime in general: Gun crimes
became far more common as well. As Malcolm notes:

The peacefulness England used to enjoy was not the result of strict
gun laws. When it had no firearms restrictions England had little violent
crime, while the present extraordinarily stringent gun controls have not
stopped the increase in violence or even the increase in armed violence. By
opting to deprive law-abiding citizens of the right to keep guns or to carry
any article for defence, English government policy may actually be
contributing to the lawlessness and violence afflicting its people.

Malcolm is commendably cautious when discussing the connection between
stricter English gun laws and higher rates of crime. But at the very least,
she has demonstrated that the history of English gun control does not
support the commonly made claim that English crime rates were (formerly)
lower in England because of stricter gun controls. The rise in English crime
has coincided with the growth of governmental intrusiveness where firearms
are concerned. The history is entirely consistent with the findings of Lott
and Kleck: that disarming honest citizens produces more crime, not less.

What's more, the English experience provides a concrete example of
American gun owners' worst fear: A patient political establishment steadily
whittling firearms rights away over a period of decades through means both
open and covert as circumstances permitted, in order to bring the citizenry
under more complete political control. These are lessons worth bearing in
mind whenever the English experience is brought up as part of the American
gun-control debate.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Glenn Harlan Reynolds is a law professor at the University of
Tennessee and publishes InstaPundit.Com. He is co-author, with Peter W.
Morgan, of The Appearance of Impropriety: How the Ethics Wars Have
Undermined American Government, Business, and Society (The Free Press,
1997).
Bob
2006-02-15 13:47:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:06:30 -0800, "Dwight Gruber"
Post by Dwight Gruber
Post by Bob
Thatcher was responsible for gun confiscation in Britain.
Reagan would never turn American citizens into unarmed wimp peasants
like that Fascist Witch did to Brits.
She may have hammered in the final stake, it may have been accomplished on
her watch, but to hold her alone blameworthy is shortsighted. The British
Government has been working up to this for the last 85 years, or more.
Indeed, that is correct. The Tories passed gun registration laws in
1920 to keep guns away from socialists.

And then in 1953 IIRC the Labour govt instituted a policy that made
self defense a crime. You can't even carry a screwdriver because it is
an "offensive weapon".

But it took Thatcher and later her poodle Major to capitalize on the
tragedies at Hungerford and Dunblane to disarm the British poplace.

Here is correspondence to my friends in Britain:

+++
I can't believe the same nation that invented modern science (Newton)
could at the same time be so incredibly stupid. Even more pathetic is
that Britain invented RKBA too.

Arming cops will help but it is not the solution. Keeping guns from
criminals is futile.

The ONLY solution to the problem of gun violence is the armed citizen.
There is no other solution.

Britain is a totalitarian dictatorship run by complete idiots.

---

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2006.

No more complacency: kill this gun culture

The shooting in Nottingham of a probationary woman police officer,
Rachael Bown, reinforces the impression of a loss of control by the
authorities over illegal handguns.

Her wounding comes just three months after the murder of another
policewoman, Sharon Beshenivsky, during a robbery in Bradford.

The irony of the epidemic of gun crime in Britain is that it comes at
a time when those who legally hold firearms are more policed and
regulated than ever before.

The heavy-handed approach many police forces take towards licensed
owners contrasts with the increasing, and lethal, incidence of
unlicensed ones.

Before the shooting of police officers becomes any more habitual than
it already is, the Government needs urgently to consider what might
best be done to tackle the problem at source.

Many of the illegal weapons in this country come from eastern Europe.
Tough airport security means they enter the country through seaports
or the Channel Tunnel, smuggled in via the boots of cars, the backs of
vans and hidden in lorries.

Customs officers have boasted various triumphs in preventing the
illegal importation of alcohol for re-sale. They have clearly been
less successful with guns, and might like to reconsider their search
procedures.

There seems to be a basic failure of intelligence on the part of the
police about the black market in these guns. That needs to be
rectified, whether by good, old-fashioned policing, or by officers
going undercover in inner-city areas where the trade is rife. Above
all, though, the punishment for possessing an illegal firearm -
irrespective of whether it is used - needs to be severe.

The offence carries a maximum sentence of 10 years. It is rarely
applied. That must change if society is to be protected.

The police have finite resources. It might be as well if officers
spent less time checking up on licensed gun owners and channelled
resources instead into catching unlicensed ones.

Every time an officer is shot the argument starts up about whether
police should be armed. There is a respectable case to be made for
this, but not yet a convincing one. Paradoxically, arming the police
might make them more rather than less vulnerable.

An armed criminal confronted by an armed police officer is more likely
to kill, before he is killed.

The de Menezes shooting last July, like that seven years ago of a man
armed only with a table leg, shows that even highly trained officers
can make awful mistakes.

Arming the police must be the very last resort. Stiffer punishments,
ending official complacency about the rise in gun crime, and using all
means to take the gun out of society must be tried thoroughly first.
+++
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-15 16:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
+++
I can't believe the same nation that invented modern science (Newton)
could at the same time be so incredibly stupid. Even more pathetic is
that Britain invented RKBA too.
It was Newton that invented the physics, not the nation. He was a canny
cuss who kept his anti-trinitarian religious leanings a secret while
being a certified prof at Cambridge, which was church run at the time.
Smart fellow.
Post by Bob
Arming cops will help but it is not the solution. Keeping guns from
criminals is futile.
The ONLY solution to the problem of gun violence is the armed citizen.
There is no other solution.
Britain is a totalitarian dictatorship run by complete idiots.
But Thatcher did put a stake through the heart of the Trades Unions.
That has got to count for something.

For potential female candidates for President I would recomend that they
study Maggie and get in touch with their Inner Bitch. Our presidents
since Truman have lacked macho (Regan excepted). Perhaps we can get us a
Dragon Lady and have some femmo.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-15 18:04:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:22:21 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
It was Newton that invented the physics, not the nation. He was a canny
cuss who kept his anti-trinitarian religious leanings a secret while
being a certified prof at Cambridge, which was church run at the time.
He was with Trinity College which is church operated.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Smart fellow.
He was the last sorcerer, according to William White in his book,
Isaac Newton, the Last Sorcerer. He practiced alchemy. He took the
notion of "action at a distance" from astrology.

He spent more time on Bible studies trying to figure out the end of
the world, than all his other studies, including science and
mathematics, combined. He had 30 Bibles each of which was extensively
marked up.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
Britain is a totalitarian dictatorship run by complete idiots.
But Thatcher did put a stake through the heart of the Trades Unions.
That has got to count for something.
Unfortunately she did not inflict a mortal wound. They are just as
powerful today as before she came to power. They are the largest
special interest in Britain.

She should have fired them all but did not have the clout that Reagan
did over Patco.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
For potential female candidates for President I would recomend that they
study Maggie and get in touch with their Inner Bitch.
They need to get in contact with her purse, which she used to
physically intimidate people. She probably had a gun in it, like
anti-gun politicians in America.
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Our presidents
since Truman have lacked macho (Regan excepted). Perhaps we can get us a
Dragon Lady and have some femmo.
No way. I do not want the country run on hormones.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Robert J. Kolker
2006-02-15 18:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
No way. I do not want the country run on hormones.
Oh yes? It is currently run on testosterone. Why is estrogen any worse?
Give it a try. It might just work. Besides, females tend to be more
practical than males. They are less hung up on principle.

Can you visualize a squad of female marines (with their periods
controlled by prostaglandins) yelling HOO-rah!? I can't. Hell hath no
fury like a lady in PMS, naturally or artificially induced? Let us give
the Amazons another chance. It just might help.

If Condie Rice stands for the office of POTUS (I don't think she will) I
will vote for her in a New Jersey Minute (that is where I currently
live). If Hillary Bitch runs and wins, I am moving to New Zealand for
the duration. The country will survive (after all we survived the Civil
War, yes?). But I don't have to see Hillary Bitch try to turn my native
land into a Village.

Bob Kolker
Bob
2006-02-15 18:58:39 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:25:04 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
Post by Robert J. Kolker
Post by Bob
No way. I do not want the country run on hormones.
Oh yes? It is currently run on testosterone. Why is estrogen any worse?
PMS.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
George Avalos
2006-02-11 17:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by hg
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
I meant to say "That's what I call a real committed fan"
Or he would have been committed if he hadn't committed suicide

-George
Starkiller©
2006-02-11 13:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise our
voices together and make it clear to Universal and the SciFiChannel that
their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going series it might spawn)
will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar Galactica and will be
utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must be
a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument. I thought that whole "new
BSG vs. old BSG" argument was moot and dead. It really is quite annoying
to hear those original BSG pundits still bitching and moaning about the
"superiority" of the original show over the new version. I remember some
dude committed suicide back in the day after BSG was originally
cancelled. These must be his buddies.
Dude didn't have much of a life apparently.
Indeed. I watched the original series back then because there wasn't
much sci-fi around in the late 70s. Fact of the matter it was a
cheesey show even for back then. Went to see the BSG movie that was
made and I remember thinking while watching that the feature was
nothing more than a two hour episode of the Tv series.. Only thing it
had going for it was it was shown in "Sensoround Sound" where they
used to have big honking woofers in the theater to shake the hell out
of you. The special effects were substandard even for that era and
quite honestly the acting was mediocre. About the best thing it had
going for it wa the Cylon comic relief throughout the episodes. Of
course in 1977 you had the original Star Wars as well as Close
Encounters of the Third Kind. So looking back on it after seeing both
of those blockbusters BSG struck me as kind of crappy from the get go.
IMHO compared to the original the new BSG has better writing and
deeper story lines and is 100 times more believable. (I know, tell
you something you don't allready know) I honestly don't see how anyone
can say that the original was "the shit". maybe use the word classic
in describing it but ain't no way it is a superior product to the
current one.
Although I have to say I liked the Cylon voice in the old series.
Kinda wish they would let the Centurions speak in the new one with
that voice :-)
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
http://datacore.sciflicks.com/battlestar_galactica/sounds/battlestar_galactica_by_your_command.wav
That being said maybe the argument will go back to being moot/dead
once again.


Regards


Starkiller©

......AAmarillo High School and Oiler coach Bum Phillips when asked by Bob Costas why he takes his wife on all the road trips, Phillips responded: "Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good-bye."
MarkRRose
2006-02-11 16:46:13 UTC
Permalink
. I watched the original series back then because there wasn't
Post by Starkiller©
much sci-fi around in the late 70s. Fact of the matter it was a
cheesey show even for back then.
Dude, it was the 70's..

Mork and Mindy...

Shazam...

The Star Wars Christmas Special...

EVERYTHING was cheesy in the 70's!!!

Mark
Bob
2006-02-11 17:11:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:57:02 -0600, Starkiller©
there wasn't much sci-fi around in the late 70s.
Except for the Carter presidency.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
David B
2006-02-12 01:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:57:02 -0600, Starkiller©
there wasn't much sci-fi around in the late 70s.
Except for the Carter presidency.
That was more of a horror movie than sci-fi.
Bob
2006-02-12 15:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by David B
Post by Bob
there wasn't much sci-fi around in the late 70s.
Except for the Carter presidency.
That was more of a horror movie than sci-fi.
I was thinking of the invasion of Iran to free the hostages. That part
was sci-fi, thinking they could just fly in and all.

It turned into a horror show when it failed.
--
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan
Bert Hyman
2006-02-11 23:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shamus P. Burditt
"The restoration and continuation of the original Battlestar Galactica
is doomed unless we, the fans of science fiction and fantasy, raise
our voices together and make it clear to Universal and the
SciFiChannel that their new Galactica mini-series (and any on-going
series it might spawn) will FAIL because it is NOT the real Battlestar
Galactica and will be utterly rejected by the fans."
http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/images/galacticaflyerpic.jpg
Hilarious stuff now that BSG is getting raves from mainstream American
press like the National Review, New Yorker, Rolling Stone, etc. Must
be a bitter pill to swallow."
Jeez, talk about an old, resurrected argument.
Well, yes, it is. Didn't you notice this:

"new Galactica mini-series (and any on-goingseries it might spawn)"

in the original post?

The poster was simply reminding us what the diehard fans of the old
series said early on, and is suggesting that they are probably a bit
miffed at how the new series is being received.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN ***@iphouse.com
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