Razor.

[The Allfarva is also Unifarva.]

I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what dylan
should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

[Jim Heckman]

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what dylan
should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

But in one of my favorite episodes, "The Unconquerable Man" in
season 3, we find out that Rhade actually killed Dylan the first
time around, then later went back in time and let Dylan kill him.

[80 Knight]

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what dylan
should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

There was still a huge difference, IMHO. Cain choose to execute her XO
because he wouldn't follow an order, which he objected too. Dylan was
forced to kill Geheris, or be killed by him instead.

Post by Jim Heckman
But in one of my favorite episodes, "The Unconquerable Man" in
season 3, we find out that Rhade actually killed Dylan the first
time around, then later went back in time and let Dylan kill him.

That is one of my favorite episodes as well. But, like any time-travel
episode, did it actually happen? Did Rhade actually go back in time and let
himself be killed by Dylan, or was this simply a "what-if" scenario, like
the ones brought on by Trance in "The Dark Backwards"? To quote Captain
Janeway, "Temporal Mechanics gives me a headache"...

[The Allfarva is also Unifarva.]

I have come to dread stories with time travel in them at all. it is such
an overused plot device and convenient fixall.
They can do major anarchy and catastrophe for maximum dramatic effect,
then 'rewind the tape' and reset the continuum and say 'it never really
happened'. There have been some good eps of time travel in series, but
it has also been badly handled. I liked Andromeda in the early days
because they seemed to be staying away from the premise a lot. when they
did use it, it was pretty good [like the one where they go back and
precipitate the battle of witch head], but in later seasons they started
using it too much. At least BG hasn't used it [at least up to the ones
i've seen]. i am only at the end of season two and am eagerly awaiting
3/25 and my DVD's of season three!

[80 Knight]

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I have come to dread stories with time travel in them at all. it is such
an overused plot device and convenient fixall.

I disagree. Time travel stories are not always used to fix anything (as in
damage to ship/crew). Sometimes they are just used as a time travel story.

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
They can do major anarchy and catastrophe for maximum dramatic effect,
then 'rewind the tape' and reset the continuum and say 'it never really
happened'.

That is one of the greatest aspects about time travel stories. They can
show you what could happen, as in how bad the ship/crew could be damaged,
without actually having to repair everything. To me, time travel episodes
are always "what if" stories, and I find them very interesting.

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
There have been some good eps of time travel in series, but
it has also been badly handled. I liked Andromeda in the early days
because they seemed to be staying away from the premise a lot. when they
did use it, it was pretty good [like the one where they go back and
precipitate the battle of witch head],

Andromeda was based on time travel. Dylan Hunt and the Andromeda were
frozen in a black hole for over 300 years. That's not the "traditional" way
to travel across time, but it worked. As for the first season of Andromeda,
it had a couple of time travel episodes in it. The first was the episode
you spoke of, "Angel Dark, Demon Bright", and it was only the 6th episode of
the series. Two episodes later, another time travel episode appeared, "The
Banks of the Lethe", where Dylan manages to talk to his fiancé.

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
but in later seasons they started using it too much. At least BG hasn't
used it [at least up to the ones
i've seen]. i am only at the end of season two and am eagerly awaiting
3/25 and my DVD's of season three!

I admit I haven't watched Andromeda in sequence in quite a while, but I
don't remember them using time travel anymore then most sci-fi shows do. As
for BSG, that's an entire different matter...

[The Allfarva is also Unifarva.]

I do like the 'what if' aspect of stories that show the possible tragic
outcomes without actually doing the damage, but sometimes it is a
convenient fallback device and it is TOO easy and commonplace. star trek
seemed to be getting that way. they had more time travel ways than
spaceways and i can't see how they had any historical continuity at all,
with all the parties criss-crossing the eras, fighting temporal wars
[cold or otherwise]. I know they had starfleet playing time-cops:
safeguarding the timestream, in one voyAGER EP, but that seemed to have
broken down and factions were fighting the Temporal Cold War in a later
era and influencing events back in the 22n century, and probably a lot
of other ones too.
As to andromeda, i don't consider dylan's being frozen at the black hole
an actual 'time travel' event. it is a natural occurrence that he was
caught in: a natural progression of one moment of time to the next, his
timeframe was just slowed way down relative to the outside universe.
The andromeda travelling back to Witch Head or Dylan back to sam's
rescue ship were time travel events.

[80 Knight]

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I do like the 'what if' aspect of stories that show the possible tragic
outcomes without actually doing the damage, but sometimes it is a
convenient fallback device and it is TOO easy and commonplace. star trek
seemed to be getting that way. they had more time travel ways than
spaceways and i can't see how they had any historical continuity at all,
with all the parties criss-crossing the eras, fighting temporal wars
safeguarding the timestream, in one voyAGER EP, but that seemed to have
broken down and factions were fighting the Temporal Cold War in a later
era and influencing events back in the 22n century, and probably a lot
of other ones too.

That whole "temporal cold war" theme from "Enterprise" was pretty boring,
IMHO. I enjoyed seeing the Enterprise-J (what little we saw), and seeing
31st century Earth, but some of it was pure crap, IMHO. Yup, Voyager did
deal with Starfleet's Time-Cops, though, again I liked the episodes.
"Relativity" was very good, IMHO. And, "Timeless" is my favorite Voyager
episode. As for the timelines themselves, if memory serves, Captain Braxton
and company from Voyager's "Relativity" was in a different century then
Crewman Daniels from Enterprise.

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
As to andromeda, i don't consider dylan's being frozen at the black hole
an actual 'time travel' event. it is a natural occurrence that he was
caught in: a natural progression of one moment of time to the next, his
timeframe was just slowed way down relative to the outside universe.

I guess that depends on how you think of it. The premise of the show was
having the Captain of the Andromeda go from a time when the System's
Commonwealth thrived, to a time when the universe was in chaos. The only
obvious way was time travel. I guess they could have used an actual time
travel device, such as the "teleporter" which Dylan used to visit Sam, but
they didn't.

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
The andromeda travelling back to Witch Head or Dylan back to sam's
rescue ship were time travel events.

I would definitely agree there. Though, those two episodes were some of my
favorite throughout the series. Especially Tyr's line as Dylan began
destroying the Neitchein ships. Keith Cobb was definitely awesome at
delivering his lines. IMHO, he made you believe what he was saying or
doing, even if it was wrong. Quite an actor, and though I also like Steve
Bacic, I think the show definitely lost quite a bit when Cobb left.

[Ivor Jones]

"80 Knight" <***@nospam.com> wrote in message news:scadnSffu-***@giganews.com
: : "The Allfarva is also Unifarva." <***@webtv.net>
: : wrote in message
: : news:18829-478E7C03-***@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...

[snip]

: : : The andromeda travelling back to Witch Head or Dylan
: : : back to sam's rescue ship were time travel events.
: :
: : I would definitely agree there. Though, those two
: : episodes were some of my favorite throughout the
: : series. Especially Tyr's line as Dylan began
: : destroying the Neitchein ships. Keith Cobb was
: : definitely awesome at delivering his lines. IMHO, he
: : made you believe what he was saying or doing, even if
: : it was wrong. Quite an actor, and though I also like
: : Steve Bacic, I think the show definitely lost quite a
: : bit when Cobb left.

Yes, but he (Tyr) was getting a little too predictable IMHO. Now for my
part, S5 was the poorest, if for no other reason than Rommie was absent
for most of it..! (That outfit she wore at the end of S5 was something
else..!)

Ivor

[The Allfarva is also Unifarva.]

I didn't like the way they turned Stargate SG1 into a dumping ground for
stars of old scifi series [Ben Browder and Claudia black from 'Farscape'
and Lexa from 'AndromedA'].
Tyr was one of the best developed and interesting characters on
andromeda and it really hurt the way they sucked all the life out of him
and made his end so mediocre and pedantic. They built up a formidable
canon in the early days [not to mention a potent backstory loaded with
promise] and coasted on it the last three seasons and degraded it very
severely by season five. i watched it more out of habit and my love of
SF then any hopes of seeing decent stories.

[80 Knight]

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I didn't like the way they turned Stargate SG1 into a dumping ground for
stars of old scifi series [Ben Browder and Claudia black from 'Farscape'
and Lexa from 'AndromedA'].
Tyr was one of the best developed and interesting characters on
andromeda and it really hurt the way they sucked all the life out of him
and made his end so mediocre and pedantic. They built up a formidable
canon in the early days [not to mention a potent backstory loaded with
promise] and coasted on it the last three seasons and degraded it very
severely by season five. i watched it more out of habit and my love of
SF then any hopes of seeing decent stories.

I totally agree about Tyr. Not only was the character quite interesting,
with his quest to become head of the Neithens, like you said, his back
story, and his entire life, but the actor himself was excellent too. I
think Steve Bacic who played Rhade also did an interesting Neithcen, but
Cobb was great. The delivery of lines, the facial expressions, everything.
I haven't seen anything he has been in after he left Andromeda, but he is
quite the actor.

[Jim Heckman]

[xpost & fu2 <alt.tv.andromeda>]

To: Vindris
Re: Re: Razor.
By: Vindris to
alt.fan.leonredbone,alt.battlestar-galactica,alt.tv.andromeda on Thu
Jan 17 2008 08:29 pm

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I didn't like the way they turned Stargate SG1 into a
dumping ground for stars of old scifi series [Ben Browder
and Claudia black from 'Farscape' and Lexa from
'AndromedA']. Tyr was one of the best developed and
interesting characters on andromeda and it really hurt the
way they sucked all the life out of him and made his end so
mediocre and pedantic. They built up a formidable canon in
the early days [not to mention a potent backstory loaded
with promise] and coasted on it the last three seasons and
degraded it very severely by season five. i watched it more
out of habit and my love of SF then any hopes of seeing
decent stories.

Both of the Roddenberry series used the web to the show's max for their
time...
for example ... Earth Final Conflict had...
openyoureyes.com
efc.com
and one for the companions
Andromeda had a good website called All System's UNiversity that really
explained the cannon and the rules of the high guard.
I have yet to see ANY show have such a well developed canonical website
since.

But you forget that it's the writers that can make or break a show.
Andromeda is such an example. When Sorbo got on his "executive
producer's high horse" and fired co-creator and head writer Robert H.
Wolfe at the end of season 2 (?),

Earlier. I think soon after (right after?) "Ouroboros".

the writing went down hill. By the end
of Season 3, what was left of Wolfe's team was also gone.

I thought they were mostly gone by the end of season 2. In any
case, the long, slow slide into unwatchability began before season 2
ended, and was complete by early in season 4.

Sorbo didn't like arc driven stories but preferred episodes that pretty
much stood alone. Stories had to be written with it centered around
Dylan Hunt.
Given the conditions the writers were forced to work in, no wonder that
Andromeda tanked.

One of the saddest things to ever happen in Sci-Fi TV. If you read
Wolfe's long-term plans for the series, you'll see it had the
potential to be another Babylon 5 -- maybe even without the
latter's disappointing final two seasons.

[MBB]

Post by Jim Heckman
[xpost & fu2 <alt.tv.andromeda>]
...

...
But you forget that it's the writers that can make or break a show.
Andromeda is such an example. When Sorbo got on his "executive
producer's high horse" and fired co-creator and head writer Robert H.
Wolfe at the end of season 2 (?),

Earlier. I think soon after (right after?) "Ouroboros".

the writing went down hill. By the end
of Season 3, what was left of Wolfe's team was also gone.

I thought they were mostly gone by the end of season 2. In any
case, the long, slow slide into unwatchability began before season 2
ended, and was complete by early in season 4.

Sorbo didn't like arc driven stories but preferred episodes that
pretty much stood alone. Stories had to be written with it centered
around Dylan Hunt.
Given the conditions the writers were forced to work in, no wonder
that Andromeda tanked.

One of the saddest things to ever happen in Sci-Fi TV. If you read
Wolfe's long-term plans for the series, you'll see it had the
potential to be another Babylon 5 -- maybe even without the
latter's disappointing final two seasons.

Can you post a link for me where to find those long-term plans?

I really liked the first 1 1/2 season, but then it went indeed downhill,
and I did not discover why untill halfway season 3 (4?) where they had on
the other episode a fully manned ship and the next it was just the normal
crew without explenation.
Actually, the network here canceled it after the first season, and I kept
waiting for years to see the next seasons as I mentioned, only to be
disappointed. :-(
So it could be satyisfiing to know if the writers intentions would indeed
have been worth the wait.

[80 Knight]

Post by Ivor Jones
: : wrote in message
[snip]
: : : The andromeda travelling back to Witch Head or Dylan
: : : back to sam's rescue ship were time travel events.
: : I would definitely agree there. Though, those two
: : episodes were some of my favorite throughout the
: : series. Especially Tyr's line as Dylan began
: : destroying the Neitchein ships. Keith Cobb was
: : definitely awesome at delivering his lines. IMHO, he
: : made you believe what he was saying or doing, even if
: : it was wrong. Quite an actor, and though I also like
: : Steve Bacic, I think the show definitely lost quite a
: : bit when Cobb left.
Yes, but he (Tyr) was getting a little too predictable IMHO.

That was the writers fault though. There was so much they could have done
with the character, had they given him the chance. His death episode was
quite pathetic, even for an actor who choose to leave the show. Then again,
the episode where Rev Bem came back, wasn't all that great either. Neither
was "Fury", an episode of Voyager where Kes (played by Jennifer Lien, who
had also been let go from the show, after 3 seasons) came back.

Post by Ivor Jones
Now for my part, S5 was the poorest, if for no other reason than Rommie
was absent for most of it..! (That outfit she wore at the end of S5 was
something else..!)

I think season 5 had a few good episodes, but for the most part, it was
pretty bad. It turned from being in space, and going to a planet every once
in a while, to being stuck on the same planet, visiting Andromeda when they
saw fit. And, like you said, having no Rommie just made matters 200% worse.
;-)

[Brad Templeton]

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I have come to dread stories with time travel in them at all. it is such
an overused plot device and convenient fixall.
They can do major anarchy and catastrophe for maximum dramatic effect,
then 'rewind the tape' and reset the continuum and say 'it never really
happened'. There have been some good eps of time travel in series, but
it has also been badly handled. I liked Andromeda in the early days
because they seemed to be staying away from the premise a lot. when they
did use it, it was pretty good [like the one where they go back and
precipitate the battle of witch head], but in later seasons they started
using it too much. At least BG hasn't used it [at least up to the ones
i've seen]. i am only at the end of season two and am eagerly awaiting
3/25 and my DVD's of season three!

Yes, I've been saying the same thing. When Heroes came out and people
raved about it, I said, "Does it have time travel? Because if it does,
I probably don't want to watch it." And they said, "Yes, but it's
really good, so watch it." And I did, and the first season was good,
but by the 2nd season they had fallen into the time travel trap. It
becomes impossible to make it work when you have to ask, "how would
time travel fit into this" for anything in the plot involving the two
time travellers.

Star Trek: Enterprise went way over the top to the point of being
ridiculous.

I have heard that RDM has declared "no time travel" in BSG. Which is
good if he sticks to it. In particular, it's interesting because we
have this "cycle of time" them. Time travel is a convenient way to
explain prophecies and cycles, and without time travel you have to work
a lot harder, which is good. What it implies is that if the prophecies
are not coming back from the future, then somebody must be making them
happen, must be pushing the cycle.

[Jim Heckman]

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what
dylan should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

There was still a huge difference, IMHO. Cain choose to execute her XO
because he wouldn't follow an order, which he objected too. Dylan was
forced to kill Geheris, or be killed by him instead.

Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have executed Rhade as
soon as he realized they were being ambushed by a massive,
organized fleet of Nietzscheans? But of course Dylan would never
have done that, and was right not to -- as we found out later,
there were many Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the
Commonwealth. Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty
and confined to the brig, given the circumstances.

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman
But in one of my favorite episodes, "The Unconquerable Man" in
season 3, we find out that Rhade actually killed Dylan the first
time around, then later went back in time and let Dylan kill him.

That is one of my favorite episodes as well. But, like any time-travel
episode, did it actually happen? Did Rhade actually go back in time and let
himself be killed by Dylan, or was this simply a "what-if" scenario, like
the ones brought on by Trance in "The Dark Backwards"? To quote Captain
Janeway, "Temporal Mechanics gives me a headache"...

They certainly wanted us to believe it was real. In the alternate
future Tyr gave Rhade a scar on his hand (hmm..., I thought
Nietzcheans had nanites circulating in their blood to fix that kind
of thing?), which caught Dylan's eye when he and Harper hauled
Rhade's body out of storage, saying he'd never noticed it before.

[Ivor Jones]

"Jim Heckman" <rot13(reply-to)@none.invalid> wrote in
message news:***@corp.supernews.com

[snip]

: : Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have
: : executed Rhade as soon as he realized they were being
: : ambushed by a massive, organized fleet of Nietzscheans?
: : But of course Dylan would never have done that, and was
: : right not to -- as we found out later, there were many
: : Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the Commonwealth.
: : Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty and
: : confined to the brig, given the circumstances.

Only as a ruse so he could surprise the guards taking him there.

Ivor

[Jim Heckman]

Post by Ivor Jones
[snip]
: : Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have
: : executed Rhade as soon as he realized they were being
: : ambushed by a massive, organized fleet of Nietzscheans?
: : But of course Dylan would never have done that, and was
: : right not to -- as we found out later, there were many
: : Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the Commonwealth.
: : Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty and
: : confined to the brig, given the circumstances.
Only as a ruse so he could surprise the guards taking him there.

Oh, sure. But Dylan didn't know that.

[80 Knight]

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what
dylan should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

There was still a huge difference, IMHO. Cain choose to execute her XO
because he wouldn't follow an order, which he objected too. Dylan was
forced to kill Geheris, or be killed by him instead.

Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have executed Rhade as
soon as he realized they were being ambushed by a massive,
organized fleet of Nietzscheans? But of course Dylan would never
have done that, and was right not to -- as we found out later,
there were many Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the
Commonwealth. Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty
and confined to the brig, given the circumstances.

I think the biggest thing is BSG and Andromeda/Trek are very different
shows. I like each show for it's own views, but I have to say I would much
rather serve under Picard or Hunt then Cain. Then again, Adama wouldn't
execute anyone either, but you get my point. BSG, to me, shows what could
happen. How bad things can be. Andromeda started out that way, with the
Commonwealth falling, but the show still showed that happiness is still
possible. Trek, well, Trek is the total opposite of BSG. A paradise.
Something for us as humans to aspire too. We just have to make sure we
don't design Cylon's or Skynet. ;-)

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman
But in one of my favorite episodes, "The Unconquerable Man" in
season 3, we find out that Rhade actually killed Dylan the first
time around, then later went back in time and let Dylan kill him.

That is one of my favorite episodes as well. But, like any time-travel
episode, did it actually happen? Did Rhade actually go back in time and let
himself be killed by Dylan, or was this simply a "what-if" scenario, like
the ones brought on by Trance in "The Dark Backwards"? To quote Captain
Janeway, "Temporal Mechanics gives me a headache"...

They certainly wanted us to believe it was real. In the alternate
future Tyr gave Rhade a scar on his hand (hmm..., I thought
Nietzcheans had nanites circulating in their blood to fix that kind
of thing?), which caught Dylan's eye when he and Harper hauled
Rhade's body out of storage, saying he'd never noticed it before.

That is true, Rhade did have a scar, but with him being Dylan's best friend,
and working together for so long, would Dylan not have noticed it before?
Blah, time travel does give headaches...

[unknown]

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what
dylan should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

There was still a huge difference, IMHO. Cain choose to execute her XO
because he wouldn't follow an order, which he objected too. Dylan was
forced to kill Geheris, or be killed by him instead.

Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have executed Rhade as
soon as he realized they were being ambushed by a massive,
organized fleet of Nietzscheans? But of course Dylan would never
have done that, and was right not to -- as we found out later,
there were many Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the
Commonwealth. Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty
and confined to the brig, given the circumstances.

I think the biggest thing is BSG and Andromeda/Trek are very different
shows. I like each show for it's own views, but I have to say I would much
rather serve under Picard or Hunt then Cain. Then again, Adama wouldn't
execute anyone either, but you get my point. BSG, to me, shows what could
happen. How bad things can be. Andromeda started out that way, with the
Commonwealth falling, but the show still showed that happiness is still
possible. Trek, well, Trek is the total opposite of BSG. A paradise.
Something for us as humans to aspire too. We just have to make sure we
don't design Cylon's or Skynet. ;-)

Trek (possibly excepting TOS) is an appalling universe, peopled by a
Federation who spout as nauseam about autonomy and individual rights,
yet persistently impose their own narrow worldview on everyone they
meet. Though it doesn't help that the writers view of alien
civilisations rarely rises above the meanest of stereotypes. Klingon
warrior culture? They wouldn't last five minutes. What kind of warrior
allows an outsider like Ryker to define what is and is not honourable?

Paradise my arse, it's a purgatory of the bland.

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman
But in one of my favorite episodes, "The Unconquerable Man" in
season 3, we find out that Rhade actually killed Dylan the first
time around, then later went back in time and let Dylan kill him.

That is one of my favorite episodes as well. But, like any time-travel
episode, did it actually happen? Did Rhade actually go back in time and let
himself be killed by Dylan, or was this simply a "what-if" scenario, like
the ones brought on by Trance in "The Dark Backwards"? To quote Captain
Janeway, "Temporal Mechanics gives me a headache"...

They certainly wanted us to believe it was real. In the alternate
future Tyr gave Rhade a scar on his hand (hmm..., I thought
Nietzcheans had nanites circulating in their blood to fix that kind
of thing?), which caught Dylan's eye when he and Harper hauled
Rhade's body out of storage, saying he'd never noticed it before.

That is true, Rhade did have a scar, but with him being Dylan's best friend,
and working together for so long, would Dylan not have noticed it before?
Blah, time travel does give headaches...

[80 Knight]

Post by unknown

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by 80 Knight

Post by Jim Heckman

Post by The Allfarva is also Unifarva.
I just got the DVD and watched the unedited ep. i was surprised at some
of the choice language. I was quite pleased to see the 'old' model
centurions again they were far more convincing in their CGI form and
using slug throwing SMG's. I thought it funny seeing steve bacic playing
cain's exec! talk about eerie parallels. he got coming to him what
dylan should have done to rhade in the premiere if andromeda.

? Dylan *did* do that to (Gaheris) Rhade in the premiere of
/Andromeda/.

There was still a huge difference, IMHO. Cain choose to execute her XO
because he wouldn't follow an order, which he objected too. Dylan was
forced to kill Geheris, or be killed by him instead.

Right. I wonder if the OP meant Dylan should have executed Rhade as
soon as he realized they were being ambushed by a massive,
organized fleet of Nietzscheans? But of course Dylan would never
have done that, and was right not to -- as we found out later,
there were many Nietzscheans who remained loyal to the
Commonwealth. Plus, Rhade himself insisted he be relieved of duty
and confined to the brig, given the circumstances.

I think the biggest thing is BSG and Andromeda/Trek are very different
shows. I like each show for it's own views, but I have to say I would much
rather serve under Picard or Hunt then Cain. Then again, Adama wouldn't
execute anyone either, but you get my point. BSG, to me, shows what could
happen. How bad things can be. Andromeda started out that way, with the
Commonwealth falling, but the show still showed that happiness is still
possible. Trek, well, Trek is the total opposite of BSG. A paradise.
Something for us as humans to aspire too. We just have to make sure we
don't design Cylon's or Skynet. ;-)

Trek (possibly excepting TOS) is an appalling universe, peopled by a
Federation who spout as nauseam about autonomy and individual rights,
yet persistently impose their own narrow worldview on everyone they
meet. Though it doesn't help that the writers view of alien
civilisations rarely rises above the meanest of stereotypes. Klingon
warrior culture? They wouldn't last five minutes. What kind of warrior
allows an outsider like Ryker to define what is and is not honourable?
Paradise my arse, it's a purgatory of the bland.

You're right. Food, shelter, medicines for everyone is a terrible thing.
Working to better ourselves, instead of destroying ourselves is also quite
the waste of time.
There was a quote in T2:
John Connor: "We aren't gonna make it, are we? I mean people."
Arnie: "It is in your nature to destroy yourselves."
Trek, at least Gene Roddenberry Trek, tries to tell us that there is a
possibility of a good outcome. That the future may hold something good for
us. I like to think that's true.

[The Eclectician]

Paradise my arse, it's [trek universe] a purgatory of the bland."

Stories about life in paradise tend to be noneventful. larry Niven said
something to that effect when asked why he quit writing stories about
his known space universe after the year 3000: "Stories about lucky,
immortal people are basically boring".

[catpandaddy]

Post by The Eclectician
Paradise my arse, it's [trek universe] a purgatory of the bland."
Stories about life in paradise tend to be noneventful. larry Niven said
something to that effect when asked why he quit writing stories about
his known space universe after the year 3000: "Stories about lucky,
immortal people are basically boring".

Unless they are biographical.