Would you pay extra for a sci fi pay channel as good as HBO?

[c***@webtv.net]

HBO is great. It has to be because people pay to watch it and they have
to give the people who are willing to pay extra what they want. The sort
of people who liked Mork and Mindy, Married with Children and the Love
Boat are not usually the sort of people who pay to watch HBO.
(Though even the poorest seem to be able to find the money for extended
basic cable so that they can watch all of the shopping channels) Would
you pay a subscription for a scifi channel that was as good at sci fi as
HBO is at other things?
What we really need is HBO SCI FI.

[Aldous Qum]

If it had the proper lineup of classic scifi and QUALITY "original"
material, then I would probably watch nothing BUT a pay scifi channel!

[Mike Meyer]

Post by c***@webtv.net
(Though even the poorest seem to be able to find the money for extended
basic cable so that they can watch all of the shopping channels)

I've never seen the shopping channels on "extended" cable. They seem to be
available at all levels. I think they even show up on DirectTV after
they've cut you off for non-payment.

Post by c***@webtv.net
Would
you pay a subscription for a scifi channel that was as good at sci fi as
HBO is at other things?

Yes, I would. But most of the available material isn't as good as what
HBO does for other things. So what would they run?

Post by c***@webtv.net
What we really need is HBO SCI FI.

One channel, full of nothing but quality science fiction movies, and
the occasional new series? Sounds good to me.

<mike

[Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst]

"most of the available material isn't as good as what HBO does for other
things. So what would they run?"

"Material isn't as good"?!? Scifi is replete with great material. Maybe
not Academy or Emmy Award stuff, but who cares what a bunch of snobby
critics think, anyway? They always despise shows that are the most
popular and sing the praises of oblique crap nobody else likes or
understands. There are scads of old scifi movies and series if they were
collected and all run on the same channel. and I am talking REAL scifi,
not marginalized crap like "Buffy" or "Hercules". Or UFO nut and
"unexplained/paranormal" tabloid schlock. Or horror/slasher gore flicks,
either. Each has their place but not on a scifi channel.=A0=A0=A0

[Mark Nobles]

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
I am talking REAL scifi,
not marginalized crap like "Buffy"

I agree with everything else you say but this. I'll even grant you that
Buffy is fantasy, not SF. But Buffy the Vampire Slayer, at least the
series, is not crap of any kind. You clearly have no idea what you are
talking about in that regard.

Now how pure are you? Would you accept:
"Lord of the Rings: The Director's Cut"
"The Rocky Horror Picture Show"?
"12 Monkeys"?
"1984"?
"28 Days Later"?
"A Boy and His Dog"?
"A Clockwork Orange"?
"Alien[s]"?
"Babylon 5"
"Batman"?
"Brazil"?
"Cowboy Bebop"?
"Dark Star"?
"Doctor Who"?
"Dragon Riders of Pern"?
"Dune"? (A new, good version, not any existing version.)
"Ender's Game" (An orginal series, including all the books.)
"Fahrenheit 451"?
"Farscape"?
"Firefly"?
"Ghostbusters"?
"Godzilla"?
"Harry Potter"? (Any)
"Highlander"
"Jeremiah"? (Yes, I know it's Showtime, but ignore that part.)
"King Kong"?
"Night of the Living Dead"?
"Outland"?
"Raiders of the Lost Ark"?
"Roswell"?
"Secret Agent"?
"She Spies"?
"Soylent Green"?
"Species"?
"Stargate"?
"Starship Troopers"? (An original series, not the piece of crap movies)
"Superman"?
"The Adventures of Baron Munchausen"?
"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
"The Avengers"?
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (Again, a new, good version)
"The Night of the Comet"?
"The Prisoner"?
"The X-Files"?
"The X-Men"?
"Time Bandits"?
"True Lies"?
"V.I.P."?
"War of the Worlds"?
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
"Zardoz"?

[Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst]

A nice list. I guess I would agree with over 75% of it. With regards to
"Buffy", or any other series or movie, ones view of it is a matter of
personal opinion. It would be unlikely I would be program director for
this hyporthetical pay scifi network, anyway. So the point of inclusion
of Buffy in said roster is really moot, isn't it? I am not unlikely to
change my opinion, or you, yours.

[Mike Meyer]

Post by Mark Nobles
"Alien[s]"?

Alien is horror in a science fiction setting. Very *good* horror, but
still horror.

Post by Mark Nobles
"Dragon Riders of Pern"?

Is that fantasy or science fiction?

Post by Mark Nobles
"Ender's Game" (An orginal series, including all the books.)

Oh yes. But I'd be afraid they'd screw it up.

Post by Mark Nobles
"Fahrenheit 451"?

They screwed that one up royally. It'd have to be a remake.

You forgot "The Cold Equations". That was a wonderful SF story that
got turned into a movie. I'm still trying to find a copy to watch, but
the plot synopsis makes me think they screwed it up.

<mike

[Mark Nobles]

Post by Mike Meyer
You forgot "The Cold Equations". That was a wonderful SF story that
got turned into a movie. I'm still trying to find a copy to watch, but
the plot synopsis makes me think they screwed it up.

I did forget that. I thought it was a Sci Fi Channel original, so I
probably would have left it out anyway. It seemed awfully slow while I
was watching it, but it has haunted me ever since. No monsters, no jump
to light speed, no battle with light sabers, just two people sitting in
a room talking, getting to know each other, and then ....
The most chilling ending ever.

A great story that wasn't afraid of not having a happy ending.

[Mike Meyer]

Post by Mark Nobles

Post by Mike Meyer
You forgot "The Cold Equations". That was a wonderful SF story that
got turned into a movie. I'm still trying to find a copy to watch, but
the plot synopsis makes me think they screwed it up.

I did forget that. I thought it was a Sci Fi Channel original, so I
probably would have left it out anyway. It seemed awfully slow while I
was watching it, but it has haunted me ever since. No monsters, no jump
to light speed, no battle with light sabers, just two people sitting in
a room talking, getting to know each other, and then ....
The most chilling ending ever.

That doesn't sound like the synopsis on imdb. It sounds more like the
original story. I haven't seen the movie; it's on the NetFlix list.

Post by Mark Nobles
A great story that wasn't afraid of not having a happy ending.

FWIW, Analog - which carried the original story - decades later ran a
story with the title "The Warm Solution" (I think that was it). Same
story line with a different ending.

<mike

[Mark Nobles]

Post by Mike Meyer

Post by Mark Nobles

Post by Mike Meyer
You forgot "The Cold Equations". That was a wonderful SF story that
got turned into a movie. I'm still trying to find a copy to watch, but
the plot synopsis makes me think they screwed it up.

I did forget that. I thought it was a Sci Fi Channel original, so I
probably would have left it out anyway. It seemed awfully slow while I
was watching it, but it has haunted me ever since. No monsters, no jump
to light speed, no battle with light sabers, just two people sitting in
a room talking, getting to know each other, and then ....
The most chilling ending ever.

That doesn't sound like the synopsis on imdb. It sounds more like the
original story. I haven't seen the movie; it's on the NetFlix list.

Yeah, I'd say the synopsis would have been more accurate without the
last sentence, which implies more action than there is.

Post by Mike Meyer

Post by Mark Nobles
A great story that wasn't afraid of not having a happy ending.

FWIW, Analog - which carried the original story - decades later ran a
story with the title "The Warm Solution" (I think that was it). Same
story line with a different ending.

That was the whole jist of the story line - coming up with different
endings, then finding a reason why each one wouldn't work.

Besides, "The Warm Solution" sounds like the name for a porn flick.

[c***@webtv.net]

Re Mark Nobles' list, just the ones I've seen" Mark Nobles wrote"

Now how pure are you? Would you accept:
"Lord of the Rings: The Director's Cut"
yes

"The Rocky Horror Picture Show"?
On Halloween

"12 Monkeys"?
Yes

"1984"?
yes

"28 Days Later"?
no

"A Clockwork Orange"?
yes, at 4 in the morning

"Alien[s]"?
Don't like it but yes

"Babylon 5"
yes

"Batman"?
No

"Brazil"?
No

"Dark Star"?
yes

"Doctor Who"?
Yes

"Dragon Riders of Pern"?
yes

"Dune"? (A new, good version, not any existing version.)
Yes, any version

Fahrenheit 451"?
yes

"Farscape"?
yes

"Firefly"?
yes

"Ghostbusters"?
no

"Harry Potter"? (Any)
yes

"Highlander"
yes

"Jeremiah"? (Yes, I know it's Showtime, but ignore that part.)
yes

Night of the Living Dead"?
yes

"Outland"?
yes

"Raiders of the Lost Ark"?
no

"Roswell"?
yes

"Secret Agent"?
no

"She Spies"?
no

"Soylent Green"?
yes.at 4 a,m

"Species"?
yes

"Stargate"?
yes

"Starship Troopers"? (An original series, not the piece of crap movies)
Why when we've got fox news? :)

"Superman"?
no

"The Adventures of Baron Munchausen"?
yes if a new version, otherwise 4 am

"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
yes

"The Avengers"?
No

"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (Again, a new, good version)
yes

The Prisoner"?
4 am

"The X-Files"?
yes

"The X-Men"?
yes

"Time Bandits"?
yes

"True Lies"?
like it but no

"V.I.P."?
no

"War of the Worlds"?
yes

"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no

end of Mark's list.

I'd like to add "Carnivale" to the list. yes.

[Mark Nobles]

Post by c***@webtv.net
Re Mark Nobles' list, just the ones I've seen

I agree with all your markings except a couple.

Post by c***@webtv.net
"28 Days Later"?
no
"Alien[s]"?
Don't like it but yes

These are all horror movies in a scifi setting, so I'd have to pick
either all or none. I like "28 Days Later" and "Alien", so I'd say yes
to both of them, but not to the rest of the Alien series. Not because
they are horror and not scifi, but because they are just bad.

Post by c***@webtv.net
"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
yes
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no

I'd say yes to both of them. Scifi in the old west. Shoot, we could
probably even get Brisco himself to play West in our new series.

And how could you take The Prisoner and Dr. Who without the better
Avengers? Should I have said only the Emma Peel years?

[The artist formerly Known as Bruce In Cleveland]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:43:04 GMT, Mark Nobles

Post by Mark Nobles

Post by c***@webtv.net
Re Mark Nobles' list, just the ones I've seen

I agree with all your markings except a couple.

Post by c***@webtv.net
"28 Days Later"?
no
"Alien[s]"?
Don't like it but yes

These are all horror movies in a scifi setting, so I'd have to pick
either all or none. I like "28 Days Later" and "Alien", so I'd say yes
to both of them, but not to the rest of the Alien series. Not because
they are horror and not scifi, but because they are just bad.

Post by c***@webtv.net
"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
yes
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no

I'd say yes to both of them. Scifi in the old west. Shoot, we could
probably even get Brisco himself to play West in our new series.

Bruce Campbell as Jim West. I like the Idea. though most of
Campbells characters seem to be smart asses I don't remember the
original West as a smart ass

Post by Mark Nobles
And how could you take The Prisoner and Dr. Who without the better
Avengers? Should I have said only the Emma Peel years?

[Mark Nobles]

The artist formerly Known as Bruce In Cleveland

Post by The artist formerly Known as Bruce In Cleveland
On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:43:04 GMT, Mark Nobles

Post by Mark Nobles

Post by c***@webtv.net
Re Mark Nobles' list, just the ones I've seen
"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
yes
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no

I'd say yes to both of them. Scifi in the old west. Shoot, we could
probably even get Brisco himself to play West in our new series.

Bruce Campbell as Jim West. I like the Idea. though most of
Campbells characters seem to be smart asses I don't remember the
original West as a smart ass

Maybe I'm getting him confused with someone else, but I thought he was
punning like Buffy while he was being as ruthless and efficient as Jack
Bauer. It was not a comedy, by any means, but it had some lighter
moments. Weren't there also a lot of visual puns as well?

[c***@webtv.net]

Mark Nobles wrote:" carsten1 wrote"The Adventures of Brisco County,
Jr."?
yes
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no"

I'd say yes to both of them. Scifi in the old west. Shoot, we could
probably even get Brisco himself to play West in our new series.
And how could you take The Prisoner and Dr. Who without the better
Avengers? Should I have said only the Emma Peel years? "

The prisoner seems right to me for a sci fi channel. I can't explain
why. I am not a fan of it but I think it belongs there. Dr. Who has a
space/time machine. The avengers were believable at the time. I watch
them still. I'm gay but I'm hot for Emma Peel. But they were not sci-fi,
except insofar as is James Bond.
You mentioned Brisco County, Jr. and WWWest. Brisco County had time
travel.
It belongs on a sci fi channel. WWWest was believable in that it would
not have been physically impossible for most of the anachronisms to
exist then. I like WWWest, and especially Robert Conrad, but it's not
sci fi.

[Mark Nobles]

Post by c***@webtv.net

Post by Mark Nobles

Post by Mark Nobles
"The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr."?
yes
"Wild, Wild West"? (An original series, not the crappy movie.)
no"

I'd say yes to both of them. Scifi in the old west. Shoot, we could
probably even get Brisco himself to play West in our new series.
And how could you take The Prisoner and Dr. Who without the better
Avengers? Should I have said only the Emma Peel years? "

The prisoner seems right to me for a sci fi channel. I can't explain
why. I am not a fan of it but I think it belongs there. Dr. Who has a
space/time machine. The avengers were believable at the time. I watch
them still. I'm gay but I'm hot for Emma Peel. But they were not sci-fi,
except insofar as is James Bond.

Well, they had robot killers, invaders from space, and a device for
stealing youth. Plus, just the feel of scifi, with the empty streets
and roads.

Post by c***@webtv.net
You mentioned Brisco County, Jr. and WWWest. Brisco County had time
travel.
It belongs on a sci fi channel. WWWest was believable in that it would
not have been physically impossible for most of the anachronisms to
exist then. I like WWWest, and especially Robert Conrad, but it's not
sci fi.

Good reasons. Still, a better fit than, say, "Dark Shadows" or
"Allgator" or whatever that crap is.

[Mike Meyer]

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
"most of the available material isn't as good as what HBO does for other
things. So what would they run?"
"Material isn't as good"?!? Scifi is replete with great material.

Great compared to *what*? Most of the science fiction shown on
television - either movies or as a series - would be unpublishable in
the print media. This should be compared to the comedies and dramas
that HBO runs, which, as far as I can tell, stand up to printed
versions of the same quite well.

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
There are scads of old scifi movies and series if they were
collected and all run on the same channel.

Right. That's the stuff I'm talking about. I've been watching it for
40 years, and reading the stuff for almost as long. I'd kill for good
science fiction in a video medium. But I've never found it.

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
and I am talking REAL scifi,
not marginalized crap like "Buffy" or "Hercules".

Buffy is tagged as "Horror", but it's actually urban fantasy. I
wouldn't be interested in a science fiction channel that didn't run
fantasy. For one thing, most of the science fiction presented on video
resembles fantasy with futuristic props more than it resembles science
fiction. For another, sorting the two out is nearly impossible. I
think a series based on Niven's time-travelling and parallel-world
visiting Svetz character would be fantastic. But would it be fantasy
or science fiction? Finally, fantasy fares better in the video media
than science fiction, mostly because there isn't very much rigorous
fantasy than there is rigorous science fiction.

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
Or UFO nut and
"unexplained/paranormal" tabloid schlock. Or horror/slasher gore flicks,
either. Each has their place but not on a scifi channel.   

That stuff definitely has to go. Seeing it on the sci-fi channel was
upsetting.

See my next post as well.

<mike

[Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst]

"Great compared to *what*? Most of the science fiction shown on
television - either movies or as a series - would be unpublishable in
the print media. This should be compared to the comedies and dramas that
HBO runs, which, as far as I can tell, stand up to printed versions of
the same quite well.
Right. That's the stuff I'm talking about. I've been watching it for 40
years, and reading the stuff for almost as long. I'd kill for good
science fiction in a video medium. But I've never found it. Buffy is
tagged as "Horror", but it's actually urban fantasy. I wouldn't be
interested in a science fiction channel that didn't run fantasy. For one
thing, most of the science fiction presented on video resembles fantasy
with futuristic props more than it resembles science fiction. For
another, sorting the two out is nearly impossible. I think a series
based on Niven's time-travelling and parallel-world visiting Svetz
character would be fantastic. But would it be fantasy or science
fiction? Finally, fantasy fares better in the video media than science
fiction, mostly because there isn't very much rigorous fantasy than
there is rigorous science fiction.
That stuff definitely has to go. Seeing it on the sci-fi channel was
upsetting."

Very few video endeavors, movie or tv, ever measure up to the print
version on which they are based. In that regard, I don't have that high
an expectation of scifi programming being a literary masterpiece from
the outset. If it is mildly thought provoking, cool. If not, no big
deal, either. Most of the time, comic book writers make the best scifi,
and vice versa. I don't think the scifi concept would sell on TV or
movies at all if it was too realistic. It would bore most people silly
and get a worse "geek only'" tag than it already has. I agree in part to
your assertion that fantasy series would be permissable on this
hypothetic pay scifi channel.

[Mike Meyer]

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
Very few video endeavors, movie or tv, ever measure up to the print
version on which they are based. In that regard, I don't have that high
an expectation of scifi programming being a literary masterpiece from
the outset. If it is mildly thought provoking, cool. If not, no big
deal, either.

I agree with that. I watch lots of video science fiction. I just don't
get as much from it as I do from the printed version.

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
Most of the time, comic book writers make the best scifi,
and vice versa.

That's an interesting assertion. I stopped reading comics when I left
college, <mumble> years ago. From what I recall, they didn't stand up
well as science fiction. The recent rash of comic books turned into
movies hasn't done much to change my opinion.

I'd really like to see a list of examples of good science fiction
comics, and *why* you think they're better than most of what's
printed.

Post by Gallup Dempsey-Tolhurst
I don't think the scifi concept would sell on TV or
movies at all if it was too realistic.

I think you're right about the real hard science fiction. But you
could do some of the less rigorous stuff that still tried to be
realistic and have it go over well. For instance, I always thought
that Vinge's "True Names" would make a hell of a movie. It would go
over even better now that the public has been exposed to the internet
and the www.

<mike

[Ginty Mraz]

I meant to say comic book writers seem to make the best Tv and movie
scifi authors. Writers that write prose SF are usually leagues better
than comic book writers.